Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

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marktigger
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Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by marktigger »

As part of the wildcat program this multirole missile will the army wildcats get them as Antitank missiles?
Can they be launched from Starstreak(HVM) Aimer units and Multi launchers?

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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by shark bait »

marktigger wrote:As part of the wildcat program this multirole missile will the army wildcats get them as Antitank missiles?
Can they be launched from Starstreak(HVM) Aimer units and Multi launchers?
It is the same size and both are laser beam riding so im pretty sure they could use the same launchers. It ould be good so see this as the common go to light weapon across the forces, I would hope the army uses it, (more bang for your buck!) UAV operation should be included in the scope as well.

There is a special forces version of the wildcat too but I dont remember if that has Marlet included.
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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by marktigger »

its to late for anti tank with Javelin sewing that up. However light multilauncher on an OPV would be an interesting force multiplier

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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by shark bait »

marktigger wrote:its to late for anti tank with Javelin sewing that up.
Air launched?
However light multilauncher on an OPV would be an interesting force multiplier
Agreed, if it could be a cheap bolt on system like phalanx, then it may be useful if fast attack craft are expected.
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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

Found some amazing footage of LMM being tested:



Shows some firings from BAE Fury.

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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by shark bait »

The Armchair Soldier wrote:Found some amazing footage of LMM being tested:

Shows some firings from BAE Fury.
Nice video, I thinks that's the first if seen of martlet. I was suprised to see the fury on there but its good to see a UAV has some consideration.

It would be good to see market on watchkeeper. Poland is investing in a free fall variant from watchkeeper, so it would be great if we could use both free fall, and powered on our platforms.

Weight is the biggest issue though. Watchkeeper is qouted to have a reasonable payload but does this include or exclude all of its sensors ? If it doesn't the above is certainly feasible .
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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by Ron5 »

As long as Putin comes calling in a bunch of Ford Transits & rubber boats....

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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by shark bait »

Ron5 wrote:As long as Putin comes calling in a bunch of Ford Transits & rubber boats....
Well that's pretty much what ISIS use.

It seems alot to use a £100,000 Brimstone (+delivery) to blow up a £1,000 pick up truck.
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Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by marktigger »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweig ... le_Missile

Given the martlet is a descendant of starstreak could this system add a degree of flexibility to close in defence. Yes Phalanx will provide allot of coverage backed by 30mm and 7.62mm weapons.

During the 80's/90's the Armilla patrol ships dets were from both the Royal Marines and Royal Artillery Light airdefence units. They provided supplementry airdefence to the Warships and Auxillaries as well as the usual ships det duties of boarding parties etc.
If martlet and starstreak can be fired from a common Launcher Aimer unit and or light multi launcher could they provide an additional layer of defence? Martlet against RIB's boghammers etc and starstreak against UAV/helicopters/fixed wing airthreats it would come with in optical ROE's.
Crewing of them could come again from RM or RA or given its wide use in the TA the Army Reserve/RMR or RNR could provide detachments?

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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by shark bait »

I think it absolutely should, extra capability at low cost with little logistical requirements. There's no technical reason why it couldn't work.

One thing that has caught my attention is this kind of setup which can take LLM and starstreak. Simple modular system, for small man portable weaponry, something that can be handled by any ship. It could add some capability against helos and small atacking craft and maybe even some shore targets, all with very little compromise.

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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by marktigger »

yeap thats a good combination, an Aimer unit system is totally self contained relying on battery packs not a ships power supply so another fall back position

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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by shark bait »

marktigger wrote:yeap thats a good combination, an Aimer unit system is totally self contained relying on battery packs not a ships power supply so another fall back position
Exactly, its essentially one of these strapped to a gun so requires very little integration, its designed to be portable and independent by nature. I think it would be worth the small investment, plus it opens the products to new markets worldwide.

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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by marktigger »

yes be a useful force multiplier if deploying a River OPV or other "minor" warfare vessel (MCMV or Hydrography) or an RFA somewher a bit more high risk

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Light Multi Role Missile

Post by marktigger »



due in service with Royal Artillery and Fleet Air Arm. Looks like ts very flexible in the platforms its being fired off.

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Re: Light Multi Role Missile

Post by 2HeadsBetter »

Suppose there's no chance of some extra Ajax hulls to stick 8 of these onto? I would also like to have seen it hit a moving target.

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Re: Light Multi Role Missile

Post by RetroSicotte »

Ajax is a little bit of overkill for such a system, I believe.

Not that I'd say no, I have something of an impractical love of heavy end AFVs used for purposes other than just tankery.

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Re: Light Multi Role Missile

Post by marktigger »

I would suggest Storrmer HVM will be around for a while yet refitted with LMM (was withams sale of them a few years ago a bit premature?)

But a piggyback mounting on DS30 or a navalised seastreak launcher like the one Shorts/thales designed for them would make a god supplementry airdefence system for Naval vessels/ RFA's make them containteised and crew them from RNR units. The TA had Blowpipe/Javelin/S15 and HVM fir years so it is possible for reserves to operate this type of system and I'm sure mountings could be put at Mannorbier for live firing training. The missile will already be in the inventory for Wildcat (and hopefully Merlin).



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Re: Light Multi Role Missile

Post by Lord Jim »

The Thor system has already been developed, based on the existing HVM turreted launcher whish can fire different types of missile from Starstreak to ATGMs to guided rockets. Given that the Stormer is becoming and orphan with the retirement of the rest of the CVR(T) family, wouldn't it be a good idea to transplant the existing systems, updated to Thor to the Ajax chassis and/or the winner of the MIV programme. This would provide a platform that could provide battle group air defence and ATGM over watch and so much more such as a precision direct fire capability. Also Starstreak is still a very very good SAM system.

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Re: Light Multi Role Missile

Post by Gabriele »

Lord Jim wrote:The Thor system has already been developed, based on the existing HVM turreted launcher whish can fire different types of missile from Starstreak to ATGMs to guided rockets. Given that the Stormer is becoming and orphan with the retirement of the rest of the CVR(T) family, wouldn't it be a good idea to transplant the existing systems, updated to Thor to the Ajax chassis and/or the winner of the MIV programme. This would provide a platform that could provide battle group air defence and ATGM over watch and so much more such as a precision direct fire capability. Also Starstreak is still a very very good SAM system.
That would be really, really sweet.

By the way, the Stormer HVM is already able to use LMM.
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Re: Light Multi Role Missile

Post by shark bait »

The UK integrate its complex weapons portfolio across multiple vehicles from a common launcher, that will never happen, it makes far too much sense



Has starstreak even been used operationally in the surface to surface mode ?
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Re: Light Multi Role Missile

Post by marktigger »

shark bait wrote:

Has starstreak even been used operationally in the surface to surface mode ?
don't think so, but at least with LMM they have gone back to a more conventional warhead. Good old Blowpipe had a shaped charge for impact fuze setting. But Javelin & S15 had blast fragmentation warheads so how they would have reacted hitting an AFV would be debatable.

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Re: Light Multi Role Missile

Post by Timmymagic »

Been a while since there has been anything posted on this one. It's due in 2019. Very, very quiet though....not seen any test footage recently.

In October 2018 a sustainment contract was signed with Thales covering LMM and Starstreak.

https://navaltoday.com/2018/10/26/thale ... -contract/

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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Royal Marines unleash new Lightweight Multirole Missile (LMM) system

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... GmROR43gtQ

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Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by RichardIC »

I had no idea before this video started doing the rounds that there was a MANPAD version.

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