Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Contains threads on Joint Service equipment of the past, present and future.
Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2300
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by Timmymagic »

GarethDavies1 wrote:So would the first stage rocket simply eject the missile from its cannister?
Yes, its a kick motor. It's stopped firing by the time the missile exhaust exist the tube, the 2nd stage ignites when the missile is clear of the canister and operator/platform. You can see this clearly in the Wildcat video on the previous page. Starstreak has the same arrangement, except that the kick motor seperates from the rest of the missile once clear.

GarethDavies1
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 26 May 2021, 11:45
United Kingdom

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by GarethDavies1 »

The photo of the single stage rocket is interesting as it would give more speed. Has it been tested by Thales or purely a paper concept?

mr.fred
Senior Member
Posts: 1146
Joined: 06 May 2015, 22:53
United Kingdom

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by mr.fred »

Why would a single stage motor give more speed?

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2300
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by Timmymagic »

GarethDavies1 wrote:The photo of the single stage rocket is interesting as it would give more speed. Has it been tested by Thales or purely a paper concept?
These were options that Thales said could be developed as LMM is modular. All would require funding, some more than others.

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2300
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by Timmymagic »

mr.fred wrote:Why would a single stage motor give more speed?
With a kick motor you lose space with the venturi(s) for the main motor having to run through the kick motor, unless its seperated as a seperate stage (like Starstreak, which brings complications and expense). Having one motor avoids failure points, complexity and means the motor can be purely designed to provide thrust for acceleration and sustainment.

Ron5
Donator
Posts: 6329
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:42
United States of America

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by Ron5 »

mr.fred wrote:
Ron5 wrote:I watched the video again and just going on what it says rather than any preconceptions I may have, I still think that its clear. Though a mite ambiguous I admit.
There’s two timers.
I don’t see anything that indicates when the timers end.
If we infer that the timer has to complete before the next step can be started then it must also be the case that there is a 7.8s delay between the first stage motor ignition and the rear blow-off panel ejecting, or at least before the missile starts moving. IMHO that seems unlikely.
On top of that, this is a missile intended to travel as fast as possible to engage pop-up targets. A 20s delay in the firing sequence would seem to work counter to that.
As I said, interpreting the video doesn't give answers that either match our preconceptions or actual experience.

Perhaps changing seconds to milliseconds on the timers helps :D

Whodareswins
Junior Member
Posts: 1
Joined: 14 Oct 2021, 15:12
United Kingdom

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by Whodareswins »

Timmy

I’d certainly be interested in a separate MSI Defence thread if you were still planning to do one?

Many thanks

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 15912
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Ron5 wrote:Perhaps changing seconds to milliseconds on the timers helps
If you adjust the self-destruct timer on Stinger for the missiles slower speed, and apply the fraction, derived of relative speeds, to multiply the following:
" Should target intercept not occur within 15-19 seconds after launch, a self-destruct circuit initiates warhead detonation. "
then we might be v close to how the longer timer is set, and causing much head scratching here as to the function that it might serve.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Ron5
Donator
Posts: 6329
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:42
United States of America

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by Ron5 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Perhaps changing seconds to milliseconds on the timers helps
If you adjust the self-destruct timer on Stinger for the missiles slower speed, and apply the fraction, derived of relative speeds, to multiply the following:
" Should target intercept not occur within 15-19 seconds after launch, a self-destruct circuit initiates warhead detonation. "
then we might be v close to how the longer timer is set, and causing much head scratching here as to the function that it might serve.
There's no way a self-destruct timer would be initiated before launch. Utter madness.

jimthelad
Member
Posts: 451
Joined: 14 May 2015, 20:16
United Kingdom

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by jimthelad »

Most weapons which have a self destruct enabler in the start sequence. Dependant on guidance (wire vs radio vs SAL/MMW) the range gate is preset or elective. On start up the self destruct powers up from the main power bus and then awaits launch detection (usually an accelerometer with a minimum limit or a simple rotational arming vane). Upon launch, this sets to enabled and the performs the countdown/criteria monitoring until this is met. If there is a command initiation, this is usually active from launch.

Dependant on the weapon this can be detonate at criteria fulfilment or initiate detonation at safety altitude. For example most western ATGM had a max engagement range which when surpassed initiated a climb to height and autodetonation.

mr.fred
Senior Member
Posts: 1146
Joined: 06 May 2015, 22:53
United Kingdom

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by mr.fred »

I would expect that any self-destruct timer would either be set after launch or feature an interlock that is disengaged on launch to avoid the embarrassment of the warhead detonating in the launch tube in the event of a misfire.

jimthelad
Member
Posts: 451
Joined: 14 May 2015, 20:16
United Kingdom

Re: Martlet/Lightweight multirole missile

Post by jimthelad »

No, it is a failsafe. It has to be enabled before firing. The mechanism is armed after launch. Otherwise anybody could trigger self destruct if they knew coding (unless wireguided). Those weapons with a command destruct have quite complex interactive software to prevent this, but still need enabling before launch.

The only risk is if there is a hangfire in the tube. This gets rather exciting, especially in the case of MILAN.

Post Reply