UK Defence Forum

I remember being told years ago by someone (so I cannot confirm whether this is true or folklore), that when the original production contract was signed, the price of the final batch of 100 or 200 missiles was virtually zero as MBDA were fed up with MoD cancelling orders. Therefore there was no financial benefit to the MoD in reducing the size of the order. That could be the reason why the UK seems to have received more missiles than France.

Received more missiles than France?... Aren't the British Storm Shadow missiles built in Britain?... Also, I believe Storm Shadow in France is called SCALP-EG, which stands for "Système de Croisière Autonome à Longue Portée – Emploi Général".

Breaking News!!!
It is now proven that the Storm Shadow in combination with the MALD decoys were used in yesterday and today's attacks in the Luhansk by the Ukrainian Air Force for the Russian air defences the combination was impossible to counter.

Wow, there must have been quite some integration work going on over the past few months.

There was a classic Lewis Page whinge piece in the Telegraph the other day about how Storm Shadow is useless in Ukraine

The reaction of the quick delivery and uses has shock the Russians so much they have been shooting down their own aircraft today

I don't think I've seen such a reaction to any other weapon like the Storm Shadow in the last few days, it really does seem to have stirred things up.

Jdam wrote: ↑13 May 2023, 16:35 The reaction of the quick delivery and uses has shock the Russians so much they have been shooting down their own aircraft today

I don't think I've seen such a reaction to any other weapon like the Storm Shadow in the last few days, it really does seem to have stirred things up.

Storm Shadow is a legit ace.

Jdam wrote: ↑13 May 2023, 16:35 The reaction of the quick delivery and uses has shock the Russians so much they have been shooting down their own aircraft today

I don't think I've seen such a reaction to any other weapon like the Storm Shadow in the last few days, it really does seem to have stirred things up.

IMO it's probably also down to the AGM160B MALD decoy missiles that the US has supplied for use in conjunction with Storm Shadow. Maybe used them today to spoof nervous Russian SAM operators into engaging their own aircraft as they think they are Storm Shadows inbound.

More clear pictures of the missiles remains on today attack

There are questions of what happened - the picture is unclear - did new Polish donated Mig29's fired off some donated AMRAAMs(unlikely - there would have been news of a transfer/donation) - did someone move a Patrict battery to the border for a session for a shoot and scoot mission - did the MALD decoys confuse their AD systems ...

Guessing Su-27 and Su-724s were used to launch the Storm Missiles.

Either way - it is welcome news.

TheLoneRanger wrote: ↑14 May 2023, 10:16 There are questions of what happened - the picture is unclear - did new Polish donated Mig29's fired off some donated AMRAAMs(unlikely - there would have been news of a transfer/donation) - did someone move a Patrict battery to the border for a session for a shoot and scoot mission - did the MALD decoys confuse their AD systems ...

Guessing Su-27 and Su-724s were used to launch the Storm Missiles.

Either way - it is welcome news.

It's a curious one, is it really possible to set up the digital bus and avionics interface, develop hard points and trial it that fast???

I don't think it could be ground launched as there's no rocket assist, just a turbine engine, so it needs to be air dropped while the launch platform going 300-400 knots I would assume??

My guess would be some sort of SU24 interface

The good thing about Storm Shadow is it's a low radar signature platform with an equally low inferred signature, Ivan will be lucky to shoot any down....

mrclark303 wrote: ↑14 May 2023, 11:49 It's a curious one, is it really possible to set up the digital bus and avionics interface, develop hard points and trial it that fast???

If you are able to make it with restricted functionality and without full safety checks, probably.

pko100 wrote: ↑18 Feb 2023, 16:49 I remember being told years ago by someone (so I cannot confirm whether this is true or folklore), that when the original production contract was signed, the price of the final batch of 100 or 200 missiles was virtually zero as MBDA were fed up with MoD cancelling orders. Therefore there was no financial benefit to the MoD in reducing the size of the order. That could be the reason why the UK seems to have received more missiles than France.

We just purchased twice as many as them...(c1000 vs c500). The French were also looking to reduce their stockpile to c100. We were also only MLU'ing c400 of the remaining 800 missiles in our stockpile.

mrclark303 wrote: ↑14 May 2023, 11:49

TheLoneRanger wrote: ↑14 May 2023, 10:16 There are questions of what happened - the picture is unclear - did new Polish donated Mig29's fired off some donated AMRAAMs(unlikely - there would have been news of a transfer/donation) - did someone move a Patrict battery to the border for a session for a shoot and scoot mission - did the MALD decoys confuse their AD systems ...

Guessing Su-27 and Su-724s were used to launch the Storm Missiles.

Either way - it is welcome news.

It's a curious one, is it really possible to set up the digital bus and avionics interface, develop hard points and trial it that fast???

Given the power of modern computers and the of sophisticated virtualisation technology itself - you could run the interface to the missile on an Ipad Mini in the cockpit with a physical wire connected to tte missile directly - you would not necessairly need to wire into the bus itself ? The missile will be pre-programmed with both the route and target information - so all you need to do is just activate launch sequence and drop the missile for launch really.

HARMs were integrated onto Mig29s not so long ago, so i suspect the core problem of integration would have been solved some time ago - esp given that countries like Poland operated these aircraft - so they have a wealth of experience that they can bring to the front.

Has it been stated the launch platform is a fastjet?

Ben Wallace strongly inferred that by saying that it wasn't easy to integrate the missile with Soviet jets and paying tribute to scientists / engineers. I have seen it claimed that trials were conducted with a SU-24 in Poland a few months back.

So Storm Shadow has been integrated on the SU24 in 3 month but not F35B after 10 years

Maybe we can hire the Ukranians as a kind of procurement agency

SD67 wrote: ↑15 May 2023, 12:40 So Storm Shadow has been integrated on the SU24 in 3 month but not F35B after 10 years

Maybe we can hire the Ukranians as a kind of procurement agency

Stormshadow is not going to be integrated on f35b

SD67 wrote: ↑15 May 2023, 12:40 So Storm Shadow has been integrated on the SU24 in 3 month but not F35B after 10 years

Maybe we can hire the Ukranians as a kind of procurement agency

Stormshadow OSD doesn't fit with F35 very well. FCASW is the intended replacement.

Thanks, I'm aware of the background, but FCASW doesn't actually exist at the moment - not in the 10 year equipment plan.. I simply don't believe it takes this long to integrate weapons on a modern platform, when Ukraine can jerry-rig an ancient SU24 in a couple of months. Even Meteor has apparently now slipped to 2027. The extended wait to get UK specific weapons on F35 is either the MOD being tight or LM supporting US industrial interests.

The US dictates the aircraft configuration you submit requests to the f35 JPO and they decide if and when integration of new things happens.


As an example you can integrate an aar refuelling probe on a nimrod for war use in a matter of weeks but if you then don’t do it properly you end up in haddon-cave review territory.

SD67 wrote: ↑15 May 2023, 16:36 The extended wait to get UK specific weapons on F35 is either the MOD being tight or LM supporting US industrial interests.

Truth be told everyone is affected by weapons integration delays on F-35.

At the moment there are choice of 2 x WVR missiles on the outer wing pylon (Asraam and AIM-9X), 1x BVR missile on the bay doors or in the bays (AIM-120). And everything else is unpowered....a mixture of JDAM, Paveway variants and SDB1. There are no powered munitions cleared from the inner or mid wing pylons whatsover, and only Amraam from the bays. The only other thing cleared for operations is a baggage pod (not the new Kihomac internal only one yet, the old style) and I'm not sure if thats cleared for internal use only as I've not seen pics of it, only descriptions of its use in exercises. Even the un-powered JSOW and SDBII are not cleared operationally yet...

All of the other powered munitions whether UK, US or US/Norwegian (JSM) won't arrive until Block IV, its also unclear how many/if any of those are actually cleared for external carriage on the inner and mid pylons...although fit tests of JSM have been undertaken under the wings its not clear if external carriage and release are part of the trials...JASSM/LRASM might be the only one in Block IV to get integrated.

Pretty much, there's no F-35 integration conspiracy. Everything is behind schedule.

And over budget

SW1 wrote: ↑15 May 2023, 16:53 As an example you can integrate an aar refuelling probe on a nimrod for war use in a matter of weeks

Didn't that cause the loss of an aircraft and crew?

Ron5 wrote: ↑16 May 2023, 13:25

SW1 wrote: ↑15 May 2023, 16:53 As an example you can integrate an aar refuelling probe on a nimrod for war use in a matter of weeks

Didn't that cause the loss of an aircraft and crew?

It did and several near misses before that.