MBDA Storm Shadow Missile (RAF)

[tomuk]

This goes to the crux of the industrial part of defence that has been ignored for decades.

That of production of expendables is vital if you are to have “sovereignty”.

We should take maybe a lesson from the US LRIP type procurement and buy even if not strictly needed a minimum number of said expendables each year after the main contract is finished. Add to stocks fire off older ones more ect.

But that doesn’t look good on a spreadsheet can cost a not insignificant sum and doesn’t get much traction if the photo ops are all geared to the latest cutting edge shinny new things. It does however make it significantly easier to expand production and use or supply
Inventory in conflict.

I think I see what you're getting at but don't see the relevance of LRIP Low Rate Initial Production. LRIP is about getting the new shiny thing quicker by starting production before all the (design) test and evaluation is done.

You seemed to be suggesting that we carry on buying things after they are in service and the full production has finished. I can see the advantage of this but care wold be needed to ensure we're buying the right stuff. It's no good maintaining a large stockpile of say 4.5inch shells if the guns are going out of service.

Just buying more of what we need would help as the industry has just shrunk down to the bare minimum.

[SD67]

Interesting discussion.

In Automotive the tier one suppliers usually have an obligation to keep the supply chain in being for x years after production of the transmission / braking system / distributor / whatever is finished - for ongoing warranty and spare parts support. It's a key part of the initial master agreement. Sometimes it can be quite expensive for them, and there are limits to the extent to which they're allowed to sub it out.

Defence seems more "feast or famine"

[jedibeeftrix]

This is strictly from the companies point of view.

If there is enough money anything can be done, but I wonder if MBDA has the floor space and the staff to start Storm Shadow production up again in conjunction with other orders? MBDA may be hesitant take people off CAAM and brimstone right now as those look to be big money makers for them, to move them onto a limited run on a missile that will be replace in 2028 and hurt current orders, this might not make a lot of sense for them.

I wonder if you could start it up again and then set it up in a way that you could switch it over to future cruise when the time happens? Might be a way of pleasing both sides but that depend on FC missile appearing 2028

One thing is for sure our orders of Storm Shadow was not enough for a shooting war.

They definitely have the floor space, Bolton is huge. And Storm Shadow qualified staff...because they've been working on the Storm Shadow MLU for a couple of years and are still cycling missiles through...but...there will be a question of production planning, those staff and production cells may be scheduled to roll off at a certain time to move on to FCASW/CAMM/Brimstone/Spear in order to meet pre-scheduled production for outstanding or expected orders. Keeping them on Storm Shadow may upset delivery to key customers (like UK MoD) for years down the line...

It might be that MBDA Bourges in France may be the better option as MBDA France does not have products flying off the shelf like MBDA UK at the moment, they probably have more slack in the system...

[tomuk]

They definitely have the floor space, Bolton is huge.

Is it? I though the new site was a pretty average sized distribution warehouse they have also leased the 170,000sqft warehouse next door.

[Jdam]

I thought the general consensus was we didn't have the capacity to build more.

And even if we did, with future cruise round the corner could we possible speed up the introduction of that weapon?

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... eport.html

[Jdam]

I thought the general consensus was we didn't have the capacity to build more.

You can always get capacity if you're willing to pay for it. The MLU means that parts for new missiles are being produced as some components are being fully replaced, the warhead and engine are still in production etc etc. Plus the French are still making them, albeit at a slow rate.

The reference to stockpiles could also mean that we're looking to MLU more missiles, but I wouldn't have thought there were many non-MLU'd missiles left as we've been sending them to Ukraine.

[GarethDavies1]

How much of the production work or assembly as ever been carried out in the UK?

[SD67]

My understanding is it was always 50/50 workshare but France arguably had more of the "noble" work.

Though given MBDA UK are flat out with CAMM family and Brimstone it wouldn't surprise me if Storm Shadow new build are mainly France.

[Jdam]

Though given MBDA UK are flat out with CAMM family and Brimstone it wouldn't surprise me if Storm Shadow new build are mainly France.

While you would like the work to be in the UK, given current events a top up from the French line is not too bitter a pill to swallow.

[SD67]

50/50. The IR seeker, a lot of the guidance and warhead are all from the UK.

MBDA UK actually built more than double what the French have achieved (the 2 biggest Storm Shadow/SCALP users are the UK and Saudi Arabia, the UK alone purchased twice as much as France).

[serge750]

Could we purchase some from Saudi arabia to be gifted to Ukraine ?

[Jdam]

Caption: Grant Shapps visits the Storm Shadow missile assembly line at MBDA, in Stevenage

Assuming the above is accurate (as opposed to it being MRO or similar) an interesting photo.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/81b0 ... 86a85aba28

[Jdam]

The cynic in me says those are the missiles going through the mid life upgrade but if not then that's some good news for once.

[Jensy]

The cynic in me says those are the missiles going through the mid life upgrade but if not then that's some good news for once.

As an increasingly irritated Times subscriber, it wouldn't surprise me. Their defence reporting has been on a rapid decline for some years.

[Caribbean]

Even if they are only undergoing MLU, it does tend to indicate that we've already stood up a production line for all the obsolete/ obsolescent components (which I assukme are largely the electronic components), which would be one of the biggest obstacles to restarting manufacture