BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Contains threads on Joint Service equipment of the past, present and future.
marktigger
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by marktigger »

how much commonality is there in structures between T1 & T2? could airframes be zero houred?

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The Armchair Soldier
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Re: BAE Hawk

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Image

Image

Image
A ninth and final display in China has been performed by the Red Arrows.

The Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team finished with a spectacular flypast involving all nine jets trailing red smoke, to draw an end to its six-day appearance at Airshow China in Zhuhai.

The displays at the event have made history, being the first time the Red Arrows have visited China and taking the number of countries in which the squadron has performed to 57 since 1965.

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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by Ron5 »

Thanks for sharing. Great photos.

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shark bait
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Re: BAE Hawk

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The new Hawk is being touted as ASRAAM, Brimstone and Paveway capable when fitted with a Litening targeting pod. Throw in the addition of a data link, DAS, and mid-air refuelling capability and its quite a nice package.

I've never been much of a fan of a lighter strike aircraft, and always maintained it only makes sense if the platform is also the trainer platform. Now we have a combat capable trainer aircraft, but im still not sure ther is value adopting a combat version. Is there any value pairing Combat Hawks with typhoon over the skies of Iraq for example?

It may look attractive to the smaller militaries, who are insisting on a jet aircraft, heres hoping it can keep production lines going for many more years.
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Re: BAE Hawk

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shark bait wrote:The new Hawk is being touted as ASRAAM, Brimstone and Paveway capable when fitted with a Litening targeting pod. Throw in the addition of a data link, DAS, and mid-air refuelling capability and its quite a nice package.

I've never been much of a fan of a lighter strike aircraft, and always maintained it only makes sense if the platform is also the trainer platform. Now we have a combat capable trainer aircraft, but im still not sure ther is value adopting a combat version. Is there any value pairing Combat Hawks with typhoon over the skies of Iraq for example?

It may look attractive to the smaller militaries, who are insisting on a jet aircraft, heres hoping it can keep production lines going for many more years.
It's not clear to me how UK plc benefits, greatly (if at all), from this. It's produced in India and aren't they producing as many components as possible under licence over there under the whole Made in India thing?

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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by abc123 »

shark bait wrote:The new Hawk is being touted as ASRAAM, Brimstone and Paveway capable when fitted with a Litening targeting pod. Throw in the addition of a data link, DAS, and mid-air refuelling capability and its quite a nice package.

I've never been much of a fan of a lighter strike aircraft, and always maintained it only makes sense if the platform is also the trainer platform. Now we have a combat capable trainer aircraft, but im still not sure ther is value adopting a combat version. Is there any value pairing Combat Hawks with typhoon over the skies of Iraq for example?

It may look attractive to the smaller militaries, who are insisting on a jet aircraft, heres hoping it can keep production lines going for many more years.
And the cost?
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Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
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shark bait
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Re: BAE Hawk

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The UK will still benifit, BAE can build and sell the Hawk directly from the UK, or via HAL in india. Depends if customers are willing to pay the premium for a higher quality product.
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Re: BAE Hawk

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shark bait wrote:The UK will still benifit, BAE can build and sell the Hawk directly from the UK, or via HAL in india. Depends if customers are willing to pay the premium for a higher quality product.
Why would anyone pay more for the same thing? I assume there must be some components, however few, that are made in the UK so I guess there mist be some minor benefit....

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shark bait
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Re: BAE Hawk

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Buying from a well established aerospace industry, or one playing catch up, the 2 are not equals.
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dmereifield
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by dmereifield »

No, but if imagine that any country looking to purchase the Hawk as strike aircraft probably doesn't have a large budget, and as such, isn't going to want to pay more than they have to

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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

dmereifield wrote:any country looking to purchase the Hawk as strike aircraft probably doesn't have a large budget
Here is one such mix; the Hawks have even an anti-shipping role
Sukhoi Su-30MKM Russia Jet Multirole fighter 18[1]
- Specialised development of the Sukhoi Su-30 for the Royal Malaysian Air Force.[2]
Boeing F/A-18D Hornet USA Jet Multirole fighter 8[3] All-weather.
Mikoyan MiG-29 Russia Jet Air superiority fighter 12 10 x MiG-29N, 2 x MiG-29NUB[4] Scheduled for retirement in 2015.
BAE Hawk UK Jet Light multirole fighter 6 x Mk 108 single seat light multirole fighter, 13 x Mk 208 advanced weapons trainer[5]
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

dmereifield
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by dmereifield »

^^^Thanks for the info

marktigger
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by marktigger »

there is a good market round the world for hawk type aircraft especially if it can use modern weapons.

dmereifield
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by dmereifield »

I'm not trying to be difficult or awkward, but again, who is going to pay (except for us) to have them built here in the UK at a premium when they can have them produced in India considerably cheaper. And with the Made in India policy in full effect, the benefits in terms of UK jobs and UK plc will surely be quite marginal. Hopefully this assumption is wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence to the contrary

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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by RunningStrong »

dmereifield wrote:I'm not trying to be difficult or awkward, but again, who is going to pay (except for us) to have them built here in the UK at a premium when they can have them produced in India considerably cheaper. And with the Made in India policy in full effect, the benefits in terms of UK jobs and UK plc will surely be quite marginal. Hopefully this assumption is wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence to the contrary
Final assembly in India I suppose, but I'd be surprised if all LRU production was replicated there too.

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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by bobp »

Don't forget we have production facilities here in the UK for the Hawk. Not all Hawk are built in India. Saudi Arabia has taken deliveries quite recently and I believe they are still producing that order.

dmereifield
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by dmereifield »

Yes its great they they still have a production line going and hopefully they will be able to generate more international sales - presumably the RAF will need more in the not to distant future too.

My comments were specifically in reference to the UK-Indo advanced Hawk.

Forgive me, I don't know what LRU stands for

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

dmereifield wrote:with the Made in India policy in full effect
- our PM assures us (?) that the new trade deal will be wonderful; surely (!) the above policy will have a UK exemption and we will get a "level playing field"
dmereifield wrote: I don't know what LRU stands for
- on that one, we two are in the same boat
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by bobp »

LRU= Line Replaceable unit sometimes known as Black Boxes. These are the units that contain radios, computers, flight controls etc.

dmereifield
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by dmereifield »

Thanks for the clarification

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

[quote ]I'd be surprised if all LRU production was replicated there too.[/quote]

OK, yes agree. And more? The cockpit displays etc.

Often engine production is something that India insists on, to get onto the learning curve. But in the case of Hawk, they are well pass that point as the Sukhoi offer to Brazil was backed by their engines coming from (and going back for refurb, to) India.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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shark bait
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by shark bait »

Yes, there are Indian options for all those bits too.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Duplicating the "glass cockpit" for something that still is, basically, a trainer?

How wasteful. On that topic (off the headlined topic) there is now a complete committee to look at the waste of resources going/gone into the Indian version of PAK-FA. If successful that kind of expenditure would add punch to their defence (but setting up a committee sounds more like canning it, and preforming the "defence" for why so much money has been wasted, and how it can come in handy by somehow using the results in other projects).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

dmereifield
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by dmereifield »

Williamson is pushing to sell Hawks to Kuwait, he claims. About the only positive thing I heard today coming out of the House of Commons this afternoon...
What are the chances? I believe they already use older Hawks....

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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by Defiance »

dmereifield wrote:Williamson is pushing to sell Hawks to Kuwait, he claims. About the only positive thing I heard today coming out of the House of Commons this afternoon...
What are the chances? I believe they already use older Hawks....
IMO it's 50/50. The fact that it's being discussed is positive (and I believe there's a favourable history of Hawk usage in country) but I'd be curious to know what the Italians have/will be offering.

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