BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

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Lord Jim
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by Lord Jim »

Has anyone else heard anything else about this programme? Could the RAF be looking to replace its Hawks at the end of the decade? Far more questions than answers.

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Re: BAE Hawk

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Lord Jim wrote:Has anyone else heard anything else about this programme? Could the RAF be looking to replace its Hawks at the end of the decade? Far more questions than answers.
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1034

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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by TheLoneRanger »

Lord Jim wrote:Has anyone else heard anything else about this programme? Could the RAF be looking to replace its Hawks at the end of the decade? Far more questions than answers.
The Hawk is an old design, everything that could have been done with that platform, has been done. Anyone who wants a Hawk, has a Hawk right now.

It would be useful to see RAF seed this project to see if it has any legs as a design concept. If so, then there is the potential this could be the basis of future overseas trainer sales, in addition to serving in the RAF. There is some financial risk, but the rewards are worth it.

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RichardIC
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by RichardIC »

TheLoneRanger wrote:It would be useful to see RAF seed this project to see if it has any legs as a design concept. If so, then there is the potential this could be the basis of future overseas trainer sales, in addition to serving in the RAF. There is some financial risk, but the rewards are worth it.


It has seeded it. With about just enough to buy a two-bedroom terrace around where I live.

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Re: BAE Hawk

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Royal Navy Hawk T1A, registration XX189.

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Jensy
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Re: BAE Hawk

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Another two lives saved by Martin Baker!

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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by SW1 »

T1 fleet grounded pending investigation

On the other side of the pond another 2 pins


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Re: BAE Hawk

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From the DT ..
An investigation has been launched by the MoD after a Royal Navy Hawk aircraft crashed in Cornwall.

Eye witnesses described how the two crew safely ejected from the plane before it came down in a field near its base.

Two medical helicopters responded to the incident near Lizard Point in Cornwall, the most southerly part of the British mainland.

The two men on board were airlifted to Derriford Hospital with "minor injuries".

Defence Minister Johnny Mercer said the aircraft had come down due to "suspected engine failure".

A statement from the Ministry of Defence said: "Two pilots are being checked by medics after ejecting from a Royal Navy Hawk aircraft from 736 Naval Air Squadron during a flight from RNAS Culdrose. An investigation will begin in due course. We won't be providing further detail at this time."

The crashed aircraft is a Hawk T1 from the Royal Navy's 736 Squadron based at Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose.

Both pilots ejected and their injuries are unknown although they were seen walking away, according to sources.

The company that makes the ejector seats said it was the first Royal Navy ejection in 18 years, with the last being the firm’s 7,000th ejection back in 2003.

Martin-Baker, the manufacturer, said its systems had saved 1,053 Royal Navy and RAF lives to date. The first Royal Navy ejection took place almost exactly 70 years ago, on March 20, 1951.

The pilots involved in Thursday’s incident will now be eligible to wear the official Martin-Baker ejectee tie and pin.

Standard procedure after a serious aircraft incident or a crash is to cancel all further flights of that type of aircraft until military authorities are content the cause is unlikely to be replicated across the fleet.

Where the crew have survived, as in Thursday’s crash, the ‘grounding’ of all aircraft is usually fairly brief, as the pilots can describe in detail what happened to the aircraft in the moments prior to the decision to eject.

The Ministry of Defence said that all Hawk T1 aircraft have been temporarily grounded pending an investigation.

"The RAF has decided to temporarily pause Hawk T1 operations, as a precautionary measure, while investigations are ongoing.

"We will continue to review the situation as further information becomes available."

A spokeswoman said in a statement: "Safety is our paramount concern.

However, it will be many months before the formal crash investigation report is released by the MoD.

Monday’s Defence review announced all Hawk T1 aircraft are to be cut as the MoD seeks to save money to invest in future capabilities. All Hawk T1 jets will be removed from service over the coming months.

This leaves just the Hawk T2 variant, in service with the Red Arrows based at RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire. The T2 also flies from RAF Valley where new pilots are introduced to fast jet aircraft.

The Hawk T1 is used by the Royal Navy’s 736 Squadron and the RAF’s 100 Squadron, based at RAF Leeming in North Yorkshire, to simulate enemy fighter jets in regular tests of the military's operational readiness.

Royal Navy drills - known as the Thursday War - occur weekly, and it is likely that the Hawk was part of the training exercise.

The Hawk T1 is equipped to an operational standard and is capable of undertaking a war role. It has two underwing pylons cleared to carry AIM-9L Sidewinder air-to-air missiles or a camera for recording missions to enable post-flight debriefing. It can carry up to eight 3Kg practice bombs.

Devon and Cornwall Police said: "Emergency services are currently in the St Martins area of Helston following reports of a plane crash. Public are asked to avoid the area whilst first responders attend the scene.

"Two people have been treated by ambulance at the scene and will now be taken to hospital. Their injuries are not currently thought to be life threatening or changing."

The Hawk T1 was originally a training aircraft, with the flying instructor in the rear cockpit and a student pilot in the front. As such it is fitted with an ejection system that allows the rear-seat occupant to activate both ejector seats.

The ejector seat firing systems are interconnected through a control valve with two positions, either ON (command) or OFF (independent). In the ON position the rear seat occupant could initiate the ejection; the rear seat would be ejected first followed, after approximately 0.35 sec, by the front seat; initiation by the front seat only ejected the front seat occupant.

If the aircraft was flown from the front seat with a passenger in the rear seat the control valve would be selected to the OFF (independent) position before flight to avoid the pilot being ejected by an inexperienced passenger activating the system in error.

In this case initiation of ejection by either the front or rear seat occupant would eject only that specific seat.

It is not known which mode had been selected in the aircraft in Thursday's crash or which pilot initiated the ejections.

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Jensy
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Re: BAE Hawk

Post by Jensy »

No doubt the Red Arrows will be surprised to hear that they're now flying Hawk T2...

Though by Telegraph standards not too bad. Would have half expected a reference to the Royal Navy's Sea Hawks serving for 68 years since 1953!

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by Dahedd »

Jensy wrote:No doubt the Red Arrows will be surprised to hear that they're now flying Hawk T2...

T1 Typhoons for the Arrows please. Even if its 5 or 6 instead of 9. Total fantasy i know.

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Is it not about time that the non-frontline “Red Arrows” were superseded by the Frontline “Lightning Bolts”? :mrgreen:

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by Jensy »

Dahedd wrote:
Jensy wrote:No doubt the Red Arrows will be surprised to hear that they're now flying Hawk T2...

T1 Typhoons for the Arrows please. Even if its 5 or 6 instead of 9. Total fantasy i know.
Scimitar54 wrote:Is it not about time that the non-frontline “Red Arrows” were superseded by the Frontline “Lightning Bolts”? :mrgreen:
Image

Considering this newly painted aggressor Typhoon is soon to be scrapped (and the Typhoon being a front line aircraft) I'd favour a return to the Black Arrows of yesteryear! 4-6 would suffice...

Image

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by Ron5 »

I'm sure the Red Arrows are front of the line for Tempests.

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by Lord Jim »

And doing VR air displays on zoom until then to cut costs. :D

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

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Ron5 wrote:I'm sure the Red Arrows are front of the line for Tempests.
I'll tell you what I reckon could be seriously impressive, a LANCA/Mosquito display team. Without having a bag of mostly water inside them that it has to keep in one piece they could be capable of some seriously high-g manoeuvres.

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

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https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/ro ... rtnership/


The joint Hawk training squadron at RAF Leeming is expected to stand up in September this year. The squadron will deliver Advanced Jet Training (AJT) to QEAF and RAF pilots and will be home to Qatar’s recently acquired nine Hawk T2 Mk167 aircraft, which are currently being built by BAE Systems at Warton, Lancashire.

Starting in July 2021, RAF Voyager aircraft are expected to deploy to Qatar periodically to provide air-to-air refuelling training for the QEAF’s fleet of fast jet aircraft. These deployments will provide a valuable training opportunity for both air forces; enhancing their interoperability with other nations.

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by bobp »

More early cuts to the Hawk Fleet .....

https://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes. ... etirement/

Update.... It now appears the jets will be used to form a UK-Qatar training squadron at the same base....

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/bae-con ... -squadron/

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by Lord Jim »

I am surprised they lasted this long. They are long in the tooth and have been worked very hard over the years. As for using some of the retired to form a joint training squadron, is this confirmed? It would make more sense to use the T2s with their up to date cockpits etc. that the old analogue T1s.

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by bobp »

I think the Qatari air force have bought 9 T2 jets, I think they will also be based at Leeming for a while. The RAF have only 28 T2 if I recall correctly so have very few to spare.

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by Lord Jim »

The Qatari's basing their Hawk T2 at RAF Leeming together with RAF Technicians and Pilots would make sense, especially if you take two or three RAF jets to amalgamate wit them. The Qataris can also easily afford to buy a few more if needed and the line is still open. Wouldn't it be nice if the did just that and donated the nine in the UK to the RAF once the Programme was wound up!

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

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Lord Jim
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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by Lord Jim »

I wonder what will be put in place, if anything, to take over the important role the Hawks had in the training of Warship crews?

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by serge750 »

Would they use the F35 as simulated attackers ( when as a task group working up ) or would that be too expensive ? or could the banshee Drones do the job ?

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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by Caribbean »

tlmNexus awarded Hawk support contract out to 2030

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/air- ... -upgrade//

The UK MoD has awarded tlmNexus the contract to deliver a new information management system (IMS) to replace the current training management information system for the Hawk TMk1/1A fleet.

The Hawk IMS will record the fatigue and component life usage for the MoD’s Hawk fleet over the life of this contract.

The system will manage lifing, configuration control and scheduled maintenance for the aircraft and its components, including the Adour aero engines.

This will help the MoD to continue to maintain the critical airworthiness of its Hawk fleet with an out of service date of 2030.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Lord Jim
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Re: BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Post by Lord Jim »

serge750 wrote: 19 Dec 2021, 12:17 Would they use the F35 as simulated attackers ( when as a task group working up ) or would that be too expensive ? or could the banshee Drones do the job ?
The Hawks simulate a number of threats from light attack aircraft to anti ship missiles, the latter when working with other platforms which act as the launch platform. Using the F-35 would really be a last resort though of course during a deployment they would carry out traing flight that would benefit themselves as well as their Carrier. The Banshee is mainly used for live fire exercises rather then a threat simulator I believe.

In my opinion the Navy is going to have to look at resurrecting the idea of FRADU, using a civilian contractor to provide the service. This shouldn't be too hard to do as there a quite a few surplus trainers and light attack platforms out there, as well as the personnel employed by companies.

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