Australian Defence Force

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
SW1
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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R686
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/ ... purchased/

Looks like the Government has already purchased the pacific support ship for $88.4 million

For that i imagine we have bought another second hand ship of some description

https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/ ... purchased/
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Lord Jim
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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DO we have any idea what this second hand vessel is? Is it a Damen built vessel whom the original buyed could pay for or cover operating costs? OT isn't one of the Spanish navies Galicia class LPDs is it?

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inch
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by inch »

Knowing uk mod and government ,it's probably for our 3 remaining bay class being how dedicated they to mismanagement and short term thinking , their new buzz words ( thinking ) is distributed smaller units ,so we going to swap for lots of canoe with rack's on them and toe hooks :-) lol

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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Caribbean »

Well - we have two Forts, Argus and Scott up for sale :)
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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The two Forts have gone to Egypt first one in refit now
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Tempest414 wrote: 06 Apr 2022, 11:18 The two Forts have gone to Egypt first one in refit now
Hadn't heard that that was confirmed - thanks
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Lord Jim wrote: 06 Apr 2022, 09:27 DO we have any idea what this second hand vessel is? Is it a Damen built vessel whom the original buyed could pay for or cover operating costs? OT isn't one of the Spanish navies Galicia class LPDs is it?
five years old apparently. So no.

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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R686 wrote: 06 Apr 2022, 08:54 https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/ ... purchased/

Looks like the Government has already purchased the pacific support ship for $88.4 million

For that i imagine we have bought another second hand ship of some description

https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/ ... purchased/
I am presuming that is AUD 88.4m cost?

Be interesting to see what Damen produced ship they have bought for such a low price. As comparison to whatever the MOD announce for future MRSS procurement.

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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Timmymagic »

A good example of build it and they will come...the Norwegian's built a modern AShM when everyone in the West gave up (Sea Eagle and Kormoran) or just upgraded old designs (Marte, RBS.15, Gabriel, Harpoon and Exocet)...now they're reaping the rewards...its pretty much the defacto Western standard these days...

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R686
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by R686 »

Lord Jim wrote: 06 Apr 2022, 09:27 DO we have any idea what this second hand vessel is? Is it a Damen built vessel whom the original buyed could pay for or cover operating costs? OT isn't one of the Spanish navies Galicia class LPDs is it?

For $88m AUD it only speculating that is a second hand vessel,for all we know it could be a new vessel recently built for someone on a similar deal like HMAS Sirius (O 266)

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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Mercator »

The Shadow Defence Minister posted a pic of the new vessel:

Image

The future Australian Defence Vessel (ADV) 'Reliant'.
https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/RE ... -503000206

Image
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Also the first open admission from the government that the nuclear submarines will likely be built all, or in part, overseas and it seems the UK and the US are jostling for position:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-27/ ... /100572926

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Lots of stuff going on under the hood with AUKUS:
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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An interesting take from Vice Admiral(RTD) Shackleton in regards to the Hunter Class

Australia’s Hunter-class frigate program must be stopped and redirected


https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/austr ... edirected/

https://www.aspi.org.au/report/hunter-f ... assessment
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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R686 wrote: 28 Apr 2022, 01:52 An interesting take from Vice Admiral(RTD) Shackleton in regards to the Hunter Class

Australia’s Hunter-class frigate program must be stopped and redirected


https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/austr ... edirected/

https://www.aspi.org.au/report/hunter-f ... assessment
He works for a US shipyard, so, you know. Nothing about his arguments wasn't known at the time of decision (especially VLS numbers). Even the tight weight margins. The only thing that's different is a delay in the T26 and that's much more likely to be less than the time needed to start up a new frigate program. We'll get the under-gunned frigate we ordered. However, if they're smart, the next batch could be different. That's where I think we should be investing our energies and/or selecting another vessel. After all, if you're worried enough that you don't think X number of missiles is enough, Y number of frigates/destroyers probably isn't either.

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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by R686 »

Mercator wrote: 28 Apr 2022, 05:08
R686 wrote: 28 Apr 2022, 01:52 An interesting take from Vice Admiral(RTD) Shackleton in regards to the Hunter Class

Australia’s Hunter-class frigate program must be stopped and redirected


https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/austr ... edirected/

https://www.aspi.org.au/report/hunter-f ... assessment
He works for a US shipyard, so, you know. Nothing about his arguments wasn't known at the time of decision (especially VLS numbers). Even the tight weight margins. The only thing that's different is a delay in the T26 and that's much more likely to be less than the time needed to start up a new frigate program. We'll get the under-gunned frigate we ordered. However, if they're smart, the next batch could be different. That's where I think we should be investing our energies and/or selecting another vessel. After all, if you're worried enough that you don't think X number of missiles is enough, Y number of frigates/destroyers probably isn't either.
Yes was aware he was part of the Gibbs & Cox consortium when the Hobarts program was being finalised. I personally think he is wrong about the need for specialist ASW capabilities with the T26/Hunter.

But I do see what he means for a medium sized naval force, we either have more 1st their combatants that can do the lot but have fewer of them or we could have more smaller hulls that are role specific I always thought the RAN should be more focused on ASW to support the USN

Personally I think we’re were in the right track if we went with the Gibbs & Cox baby Burke and Hunters but political decisions got in the way

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Metric tonnes, Imperial (long) tonnes, or US (short) tons ?

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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by leonard »

This takes another twisting aspect. I don't know if they meaning Bae Systems would have to come up with this public defence of the Hunter class frigate program if the not so overtly correction the very oppen lobbying campaign organized by Navantia and the offer for 3 new Hobart class ships for 4 Billion € has their warried. Yours opinion are welcome!!!

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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Lord Jim »

Whilst I am sure the RAN would welcome additional Hobart class DDG, they need the Hunter class more. The best option would be for both classes to have a CEC and be networked to maximise the capability of individual ship as well as the whole.

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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Mercator »

Honestly, if we are truly taking the threat of China seriously, we could probably do both. Much of the build for the Hobart's would be done in Spain, I imagine, because the same workforce that built the old ones is now engaged in the T26 production. That's probably what Navantia is angling for. But no one is going to be doing this. Labor certainly doesn't have the money to do it (they have big plans and big commitments elsewhere) and the Coalition can't pull it out of their arse now without looking foolish. A year or two down the track, when the Coalition could reasonably argue strategic circumstances are dire, they could build more Hobart's with less political flak – but they're going to remember Navantia tried to shaft them in the middle of an election campaign – so no. Building more T26 – faster – might be more likely for the Coalition than any other combination.
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by R686 »

Mercator wrote: 29 Apr 2022, 00:01 Honestly, if we are truly taking the threat of China seriously, we could probably do both. Much of the build for the Hobart's would be done in Spain, I imagine, because the same workforce that built the old ones is now engaged in the T26 production. That's probably what Navantia is angling for. But no one is going to be doing this. Labor certainly doesn't have the money to do it (they have big plans and big commitments elsewhere) and the Coalition can't pull it out of their arse now without looking foolish. A year or two down the track, when the Coalition could reasonably argue strategic circumstances are dire, they could build more Hobart's with less political flak – but they're going to remember Navantia tried to shaft them in the middle of an election campaign – so no. Building more T26 – faster – might be more likely for the Coalition than any other combination.

If that were to be the case I think we would have better luck with buy hot off the US DDG line, sell the Kiwis the 3x Hobarts cheap to keep them close 9x Hunters & 4/6x DDG FLGT III

But we then run into manning problems and i imagine it would still be the same of a Spanish build

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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R686 wrote: 29 Apr 2022, 00:18 If that were to be the case I think we would have better luck with buy hot off the US DDG line, sell the Kiwis the 3x Hobarts cheap to keep them close 9x Hunters & 4/6x DDG FLGT III

But we then run into manning problems and i imagine it would still be the same of a Spanish build
Would it make more sense to go for AB Flight III's or for future DDG(X)?

Would be a newer design with more room for future growth whilst the AB Flight III;s are near the limit as to what can be crammed into them, not just space but also weight and power supply. I would assume that DDG(X) will have more automation, which might help with RAN staffing?

If he RAN did sell the Kiwis 3*Hobart cheaply, that would make a big boost for their navy. Might even be too much for them to staff.

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