Australian Defence Force

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
sunstersun
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by sunstersun »

USA and France reconciliation has been greatly assisted by Australia(Morrison specifically) for sure.

Australians need to pick a sub quick times and get training asap. Realistically the Virginia VPM extended is the best bet. Leasing should be done in the next 2-3 years.

seaspear
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Australia

Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by seaspear »

I believe the choices of submarine may be determined by production capability , the U.S.N is planning on stepping up production to three a year to meet some of the challenges faced in the Pacific,Im not sure how the U.S.N would view some of that production being diverted even to an ally based in the Pacific
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/ ... -covid-19/
This article goes into some of the further difficulties faced and makes sense to wait for the next submarines in development
https://www.navylookout.com/nuclear-sub ... e-options/

Lord Jim
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Lord Jim »

In the scheme of things $50M is not a large sum for the USN.

seaspear
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Australia

Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by seaspear »

This U.S.N report to the congress goes into some detail of the history and difficulties faced in the construction of the submarine programs even the effect of covid ,I couldn't do it justice in a summary but I would suggest it's worth reading
https://sgp.fas.org/crs/weapons/RL32418.pdf

R686
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Australia

Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by R686 »

Time for the French to build a bridge and get over it

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australi ... d=msedgntp

They are still whinning over the sub deal :lol: :lol:

Scimitar54
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Scimitar54 »

One of only two responses they can be expected to provide ….. the other extreme being “crowing” !

Lord Jim
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Lord Jim »

The French certainly do not like their self importance bubble being burst.

Mercator
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Mercator »


Speaking at the Dubai Air Show in mid-November, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Executive Vice President Greg Ulmer said that the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) has requested details for the supply of 30 C-130J Hercules.

“They are talking to us about potential for 24 C-130J-30s and six KC-130Js,” Ulmer told overseas journalists.

The C-130J-30s could be seen as a solution to the RAAF’s requirement for a replacement medium airlift capability forecast by the recent Force Structure Plan. The FSP 2020 document allocates up to $13.2 billion to replace the RAAF’s existing 12 C-130J-30 aircraft and expand the fleet under Air 7404, with funding to begin in 2029.

Little J
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Little J »

A400m must be a contender...

Caribbean
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Caribbean »

Don't we have a baker's dozen that we seem to want to offload? Must have a good few years life left in them!
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Defiance
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Defiance »

Little J wrote: 02 Dec 2021, 13:01 A400m must be a contender...
It's confirmed by Airbus that they're in discussions but no further explanation.

Lord Jim
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Lord Jim »

Our C-130Js are older than those of the RAAF, and they after mainly the stretched version for heavy lift. Yes the A400 would give them greater lift capacity as well as meet the tanker requirement but how much more dies an A400 cost compared to a C-130J-30? They already have C-17s for out sized cargo, and can refuel theirs unlike some other nations. Finally they already have the support infrastructure for the Hercules and are very familiar with it.

SW1
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by SW1 »

Our c130js are 23 years old now the first ones built need expensive updates both structurally and avionics wise as we haven’t actually keep pace with all the updates if that sounds familiar so for someone like Australia they’d probably want new. For the pacific the range payload characteristics of a400m would make far more sense for them but they may prefer an installed supply base even though a400m is the better a/c.

R686
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Australia

Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by R686 »

When does the line close for A400

Not knocking the A400 I think it’s a good plane on paper but has not got a very good name with the early problems and we seem to be divesting ourselfs with Euro product at the moment

With the shiny brochure not exactly meeting the outcomes

SW1
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by SW1 »

R686 wrote: 02 Dec 2021, 19:37 When does the line close for A400

Not knocking the A400 I think it’s a good plane on paper but has not got a very good name with the early problems and we seem to be divesting ourselfs with Euro product at the moment

With the shiny brochure not exactly meeting the outcomes

It’s I’ll remain open for a while

What outcomes is it not meeting? May have been slower clearing than was initially expected but all the flight testing is now complete for the original contract specification. Most of the next two years of work with the test fleet is around reliability improvements.

Mercator
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Mercator »

The thing about the A400 in this role is that it can't just be on a par with the C130, reliability wise. Because of cost and the increased payload, there would almost certainly be fewer aircraft purchased so, consequently, should one of them become unserviceable, there is a bigger impact. They have to be more reliable, but are they? Also, if the RAAF has lots of small jobs in lots of different places in mind, the A400 becomes too much capability. (The RAAF has de-rated the wartime utility of the C27J recently, so there might be a few jobs like that now.)

Just lots of other considerations, that's all. Payload isn't everything. And, you know, the French and the Germans didn't purchase a squadron of C130s for nothing, either. That's telling.

abc123
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by abc123 »

Mercator wrote: 02 Dec 2021, 08:56

Speaking at the Dubai Air Show in mid-November, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Executive Vice President Greg Ulmer said that the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) has requested details for the supply of 30 C-130J Hercules.

“They are talking to us about potential for 24 C-130J-30s and six KC-130Js,” Ulmer told overseas journalists.

The C-130J-30s could be seen as a solution to the RAAF’s requirement for a replacement medium airlift capability forecast by the recent Force Structure Plan. The FSP 2020 document allocates up to $13.2 billion to replace the RAAF’s existing 12 C-130J-30 aircraft and expand the fleet under Air 7404, with funding to begin in 2029.
:thumbup:

Good idea.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

SW1
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by SW1 »

Mercator wrote: 02 Dec 2021, 23:50 The thing about the A400 in this role is that it can't just be on a par with the C130, reliability wise. Because of cost and the increased payload, there would almost certainly be fewer aircraft purchased so, consequently, should one of them become unserviceable, there is a bigger impact. They have to be more reliable, but are they? Also, if the RAAF has lots of small jobs in lots of different places in mind, the A400 becomes too much capability. (The RAAF has de-rated the wartime utility of the C27J recently, so there might be a few jobs like that now.)

Just lots of other considerations, that's all. Payload isn't everything. And, you know, the French and the Germans didn't purchase a squadron of C130s for nothing, either. That's telling.
A400m reliable is improving considerably and will improve further.

If it’s lots of small jobs then why bother with Hercules. It is range with payload rather than just payload and to the range of surfaces it can take them too.

The French and German ordered a handful of c130 a few years ago for one specific reason helicopter aar. It was considered necessary as they had an urgent need in Africa for it and they didn’t believe a400m would be able to do helicopter aar after initial trials were unsuccessful. It’s taken a few years to solve but a400m is now able to preform the role and will be accepted into French service next year when the French buy some wing pods..

topman
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by topman »

A400m reliable is improving considerably and will improve further.


What makes you say that?

SW1
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by SW1 »

topman wrote: 03 Dec 2021, 12:27 A400m reliable is improving considerably and will improve further.


What makes you say that?
Aircraft have over the past year and a half started cycling thru the agreed upgrade cycles that should clear ECS and engine issues that have plagued most of the earlier delivered a/c and as they return availability will increase. Going fwd there will be changes made with the global Airbus supply systems.

topman
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by topman »

SW1 wrote: 03 Dec 2021, 13:21
topman wrote: 03 Dec 2021, 12:27 A400m reliable is improving considerably and will improve further.


What makes you say that?
Aircraft have over the past year and a half started cycling thru the agreed upgrade cycles that should clear ECS and engine issues that have plagued most of the earlier delivered a/c and as they return availability will increase. Going fwd there will be changes made with the global Airbus supply systems.
Lets hope the improvements are sooner rather than later. Only reason i ask i was chatting at brize the other day. There's plenty of room for improvement.

SW1
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by SW1 »

topman wrote: 03 Dec 2021, 18:26
SW1 wrote: 03 Dec 2021, 13:21
topman wrote: 03 Dec 2021, 12:27 A400m reliable is improving considerably and will improve further.


What makes you say that?
Aircraft have over the past year and a half started cycling thru the agreed upgrade cycles that should clear ECS and engine issues that have plagued most of the earlier delivered a/c and as they return availability will increase. Going fwd there will be changes made with the global Airbus supply systems.
Lets hope the improvements are sooner rather than later. Only reason i ask i was chatting at brize the other day. There's plenty of room for improvement.

Indeed some of the issues in the uk are a result of the decision in 2015 to retain Hercules which stunted a400m stand up and personnel availability and release spares funding its much easier to Christmas tree a/c if you think the other will continue.

topman
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by topman »

SW1 wrote: 03 Dec 2021, 18:43
topman wrote: 03 Dec 2021, 18:26
SW1 wrote: 03 Dec 2021, 13:21
topman wrote: 03 Dec 2021, 12:27 A400m reliable is improving considerably and will improve further.


What makes you say that?
Aircraft have over the past year and a half started cycling thru the agreed upgrade cycles that should clear ECS and engine issues that have plagued most of the earlier delivered a/c and as they return availability will increase. Going fwd there will be changes made with the global Airbus supply systems.
Lets hope the improvements are sooner rather than later. Only reason i ask i was chatting at brize the other day. There's plenty of room for improvement.

Indeed some of the issues in the uk are a result of the decision in 2015 to retain Hercules which stunted a400m stand up and personnel availability and release spares funding its much easier to Christmas tree a/c if you think the other will continue.
Tbh, i didn't have time to get into the nitty gritty as to why. I wonder how the other users get on.

Although there were quite a few quality issues with them leaving the factory, some make me think a lot of the dispatch checks were just pened up. Hopefully all sorted now.

Lord Jim
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Lord Jim »

I just hope we keep our A400 up to spec and don't try to save pennies buy avoiding upgrades. As for the RAAF, the C-130J makes perfect sense, as does growing the fleet and introducing an AAR capability with the KCs. I just wish we did the same with a few of our A400, as part of the scheme to eventually have a number for SF support.

seaspear
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Australia

Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by seaspear »

An article from Defence connect on the new upgrade to the JORN tracking system
https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/intel ... orn-radars

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