Australian Defence Force

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
serge750
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by serge750 »

Does that Barrow would build the reactor segmets - a £2bn deal was mentioned 13feb page 82 - then sent to Oz to be intergrated into their Oz built us designed segments ??

inch
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by inch »

Yes all a bit confusing ATM till we find out for sure , kind of makes more sense Australia choosing a American design tbh
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tomuk
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by tomuk »

inch wrote: 07 Mar 2023, 20:38 Yes all a bit confusing ATM till we find out for sure , kind of makes more sense Australia choosing a American design tbh
Apart from the Virginias larger land attack capability I don't think it does, American boats are more manpower intensive than the UK ones so a SSN(R) with a VLS would be a better fit for Australia. In terms of systems as long as some capability is on shored I don't think it matters.
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R686
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by R686 »

inch wrote: 07 Mar 2023, 15:57 Just read an article in BREAKING DEFENCE about upcoming AUKUS announcement and SPECULATION that the submarine choice COULD be American sub with British reactor technology,,that could work I guess ,a PR3 reactor that is very closely designed of American tech I believe already in a Virginia class ,so would fit and be similar to whats already in class of boat ,gets Australia the boat it wants with US systems and probably save on barrow trying to build extra boats with no capacity to do so I'm assuming? ,but rolls Royce just starting to build or in process of building PR3 reactors for dreadnought and I assume future SSNR class,makes sense to me but as I say BREAKING DEFENCE state SPECULATION,but I think that's more doable than astute class to me as was my first choice lol ,but hey we just don't know yet , STILL guessing lol
That does not really make sense because of the expense of redesigning the reactor compartment for the UK PWR3 from a hot production line. (That is only my assumption that pipe work and maybe length might be different)

Just my opinion I think they have it arse about if they are going to spend money on redesign it would be S9G in an Astute

Mercator
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Mercator »

Yeah, I think the crew size is important and it's much more likely that Australia would try to align with a British operating philosophy. So I would have thought that SSN(R) is much more likely, regardless of where the reactor comes from. It would need VLS however.

And, BTW, this is aligned with the speculation in Australia. This twitter thread below has a couple of big names in the strategic community here who seem to be thinking the same thing. One of them is the head of the Lowy Institute. You would think they'd be well connected, but who knows?


R686
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by R686 »

My bet is.....Astute with S9G


S9G shipped to UK for back half of submarine build front half built in SA. now would they ship the back half to AU or the front to UK for a total of 3 boats then SSN(R) built in AU from boat 4.

tomuk
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by tomuk »

R686 wrote: 08 Mar 2023, 00:43 My bet is.....Astute with S9G


S9G shipped to UK for back half of submarine build front half built in SA. now would they ship the back half to AU or the front to UK for a total of 3 boats then SSN(R) built in AU from boat 4.
UK doesn't need reactors and exporting them from the states is one of the most problematical issues.

SouthernOne
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by SouthernOne »

tomuk wrote: 08 Mar 2023, 04:52
R686 wrote: 08 Mar 2023, 00:43 My bet is.....Astute with S9G


S9G shipped to UK for back half of submarine build front half built in SA. now would they ship the back half to AU or the front to UK for a total of 3 boats then SSN(R) built in AU from boat 4.
UK doesn't need reactors and exporting them from the states is one of the most problematical issues.
My bet is ..... a collaborative new design that provides that for 90% commonality across each of the three services. The UK will differ through use of its own combat system and weapons, and Aus will differ by not including any systems related to high end land attack capability.

inch
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by inch »

On the interim options isn't the RN only operating only 6 boats ATM for quite some time now and as someone said have difficulty even manning all boats ,so yes maybe they will lend/ lease / fudge the 7th boat to Australia as the interim solution?

inch
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by inch »

Just a second thought after reading all you chaps ideas etc ,I was just thinking which ever way it goes I don't think that they are going to ship half built reactors in back end of subs half way across the world just too unsafe and security issues etc ,so I think the sail and front end will sail not the reactors , just a thought chaps? ,ie Australia and UK sending sections to US for their reactor or the other way round depending on which way it goes
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Caribbean »

I thought the heart of the issue was that Australia does not want to build nuclear reactors - they have no nuclear industry to speak of and a political aversion to developing one. Allegedly, part of the attraction of the AUKUS deal, was that the reactor would be both built and decommissioned outside of Aus, either by the UK or USA.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Zeno
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Zeno »

Building the nuclear subs for the R.A.N will be quicker than training the crews for them its not like walking across from a Collins directly into a nuclear submarine of a type not even known at this stage, could an Astute crewman right now go straight into their respective role on a Virginia class and vice versa for instance?

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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Mercator »





Choose your weapon...
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sunstersun

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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Mercator »

Another
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R686
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by R686 »

tomuk wrote: 08 Mar 2023, 04:52
R686 wrote: 08 Mar 2023, 00:43 My bet is.....Astute with S9G


S9G shipped to UK for back half of submarine build front half built in SA. now would they ship the back half to AU or the front to UK for a total of 3 boats then SSN(R) built in AU from boat 4.
UK doesn't need reactors and exporting them from the states is one of the most problematical issues.
The S9G is not for UK boats but AU boats. unless RR is going to reopen PWR2 lines its the only thing that will fit in new build Astute class

Oh well only a few more sleeps and we all gett a better idea of whats going on
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by R686 »

Mercator wrote: 08 Mar 2023, 22:22 Another
Mercator wrote: 08 Mar 2023, 22:15



Choose your weapon...
Rumor mill running in overtime :shock:

R686
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by R686 »

I guess we would never know but I am wondering if their are any aussies within the RN/USN submarine services both enlisted/officers who would transfer back to the ADF or for that matter wonder who would be looking to see if they can transfer to the RAN

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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Mercator »

I'd be surprised if there's any rampant pilfering on anyone's behalf. All the service chiefs still want cordial relations with each other and that's hardly going to happen if they poach too much in one direction or another. Australia especially needs the goodwill of the other two, so we aren't likely to become a nuisance. Heck, if they are smart about it, they'd probably make it a provision in the agreement that we can't take in ex-servicemen from another without their agreement if at all.

inch
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by inch »

Reading the reports it just doesn't add up to me ,as said all guess work yet but why would Australia get 3 Virginia class options to get 2 more which would last decades but also help design a new submarine (SSNR) I quess based on astute with American systems that they already have in a Virginia class lol ,utter bollox that idea to me at least,why would they possibly even want to do that ,if Australia buys Virginia for all the capability and American systems it will keep Virginia for its fleet class with updates from America ,they are not suddenly going to swap for a new design having 2 of class ,think thats just a holding too keep the UK happy but in reality would suddenly be dropped down the line with headlines , Australia going to stop with Virginia class, navy/ government statement.think about it it's just not credible in my v humble view,if indeed that's what they going to announce on Monday,

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SKB
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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SW1
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by SW1 »

Maybe what will happen is the US fwd deploys Virginia boats to Australia which the Aussies may help to crew. And the boats they will buy with be a new design which be relatively common across the 3 navy’s.

TheLoneRanger
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by TheLoneRanger »

Blloomberg says Australia will buy UK Design for AUKUS submarines (with interim of Virigina's until they turn up)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ify%20wall

inch
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by inch »

Aye just seen a few more pre announcement articles , still doesn't add up to me lol,as said if buy 3 and possibly another 2 Virginia,that's nearly the 8 Australia wants in total ,after all that training and operating a Virginia class why would Australia want SSNR , please someone say I'm not seeing something IF indeed to that's what's going to happen ,just a waste of money putting it same guts into a different package ,I'm absolutely positive the SSNR built in Australia will get dropped and possibly Virginia modules will be built in Australia instead when hard reality hits of how complex it's going to be for Australia ,the big dog in the room was never going to allow a UK design be the choice for Australia, especially if going to be USN Virginia subs home ported in Australia with all the accompanying infrastructure for Virginia boats going to be built Australia,why Star again with future astute design lol,no way even if that's what they announced now ,it isn't going to happen, Virginia class will be the best choice for Australia, would love to be astute design but just doesn't make sense ,as said please someone tell me inch you got it all wrong in your thinking ,I don't mind being educated,we are all pals on here now 👍

Zeno
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Zeno »

On another defence forum same discussion same queries and frustration with this, too many rumours and guesses best to wait then pick over it

tomuk
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by tomuk »

San Diego is homeport to 5 Los Angeles Class boats that were pencilled in for withdrawal from 2026.

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