Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

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mrclark303
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Re: Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by mrclark303 »

Tempest414 wrote: 02 Feb 2022, 12:28
Lord Jim wrote: 30 Jan 2022, 21:53 What role would the RAF AW-149s have that the AAC ones cannot do? As for the Wildcat, it has become a worthy successor to the Gazelle in the Recce Role and in supporting the Apache. The AAC has a wish list of additional capabilities they would like on their Wildcats, most already fitted to the FAA version. The H-135 may have a role as a communication platform replacing existing helicopters as a suggestion for the RAF helicopters but they would only need ten or so to fulfil that role. I would give all the AW-149s to the AAC and have them take on the roles of support units in Cyprus and Brunei. I also favour having the AW-149s able to be armed with weapons in additions to any Door Guns to provide a capability that would compliment the Apache and allow the AW-149s the ability to operate in areas of risk when Apaches are not available.
There are loads of roles for a RAF AW-149 fleet on top of a AAC AW-149 fleet and I can see some need for a weapons package for Aw-149 I would also make the RAF AW-149's carrier capable allowing them to beef up the FCF leaving the AAC to get on and support the Army
Certainly basic carrier capability needs to be mandatory to give maximum utility to a small fleet of helicopters.

Manual folding blades, warship compatible avionics, tie down points and suitable corrosion treatment.

As is widely known, Puma was dangerous to operate regarding shipborne ops in anything bar the most benign conditions, or war service when safety concerns are 'relaxed' as they say.

It's top heavy design made it potentially extremely dangerous on a pitching platform.

I'm also broadly in favour of an armament package to allow self escort when needed, specifically regarding SF use.

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Re: Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by dmereifield »

SW1 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 15:51 https://www.flightglobal.com/helicopter ... 41.article

UK procurement officials are facing awkward questions over acquisition policy after it emerged that a fleet of Airbus Helicopters H135s purchased as replacements for the British Army’s elderly Gazelles has been mothballed before ever seeing active use.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) in October 2021 awarded Airbus Helicopters a contract for the “procurement of aircraft”, later confirmed to be for five H135 light-twins, all of which were delivered in 2022.
Another military aid package to Ukraine???
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Re: Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by SW1 »

mrclark303 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 17:52
Tempest414 wrote: 02 Feb 2022, 12:28
Lord Jim wrote: 30 Jan 2022, 21:53 What role would the RAF AW-149s have that the AAC ones cannot do? As for the Wildcat, it has become a worthy successor to the Gazelle in the Recce Role and in supporting the Apache. The AAC has a wish list of additional capabilities they would like on their Wildcats, most already fitted to the FAA version. The H-135 may have a role as a communication platform replacing existing helicopters as a suggestion for the RAF helicopters but they would only need ten or so to fulfil that role. I would give all the AW-149s to the AAC and have them take on the roles of support units in Cyprus and Brunei. I also favour having the AW-149s able to be armed with weapons in additions to any Door Guns to provide a capability that would compliment the Apache and allow the AW-149s the ability to operate in areas of risk when Apaches are not available.
There are loads of roles for a RAF AW-149 fleet on top of a AAC AW-149 fleet and I can see some need for a weapons package for Aw-149 I would also make the RAF AW-149's carrier capable allowing them to beef up the FCF leaving the AAC to get on and support the Army
Certainly basic carrier capability needs to be mandatory to give maximum utility to a small fleet of helicopters.

Manual folding blades, warship compatible avionics, tie down points and suitable corrosion treatment.

As is widely known, Puma was dangerous to operate regarding shipborne ops in anything bar the most benign conditions, or war service when safety concerns are 'relaxed' as they say.

It's top heavy design made it potentially extremely dangerous on a pitching platform.

I'm also broadly in favour of an armament package to allow self escort when needed, specifically regarding SF use.
Must be off to war….

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 419%29.jpg

And yet France, Romania, Chile, Brazil, Singapore and the USNS all use Puma at sea.

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mrclark303
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Re: Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by mrclark303 »

SW1 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 18:04
mrclark303 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 17:52
Tempest414 wrote: 02 Feb 2022, 12:28
Lord Jim wrote: 30 Jan 2022, 21:53 What role would the RAF AW-149s have that the AAC ones cannot do? As for the Wildcat, it has become a worthy successor to the Gazelle in the Recce Role and in supporting the Apache. The AAC has a wish list of additional capabilities they would like on their Wildcats, most already fitted to the FAA version. The H-135 may have a role as a communication platform replacing existing helicopters as a suggestion for the RAF helicopters but they would only need ten or so to fulfil that role. I would give all the AW-149s to the AAC and have them take on the roles of support units in Cyprus and Brunei. I also favour having the AW-149s able to be armed with weapons in additions to any Door Guns to provide a capability that would compliment the Apache and allow the AW-149s the ability to operate in areas of risk when Apaches are not available.
There are loads of roles for a RAF AW-149 fleet on top of a AAC AW-149 fleet and I can see some need for a weapons package for Aw-149 I would also make the RAF AW-149's carrier capable allowing them to beef up the FCF leaving the AAC to get on and support the Army
Certainly basic carrier capability needs to be mandatory to give maximum utility to a small fleet of helicopters.

Manual folding blades, warship compatible avionics, tie down points and suitable corrosion treatment.

As is widely known, Puma was dangerous to operate regarding shipborne ops in anything bar the most benign conditions, or war service when safety concerns are 'relaxed' as they say.

It's top heavy design made it potentially extremely dangerous on a pitching platform.

I'm also broadly in favour of an armament package to allow self escort when needed, specifically regarding SF use.
Must be off to war….

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 419%29.jpg

And yet France, Romania, Chile, Brazil, Singapore and the USNS all use Puma at sea.
Thanks for posting the "where's Wally" picture. I give up SW1, I can't spot the standard Puma ... Plenty of Cougars and and a SeaHawk though...

The Super Puma/ Cougar is an inherently more stable platform with its greater length and slightly wider placement of main gear.

The most interesting thing about the picture is the obvious greater stability in the basic design of the SeaHawk/ Blackhawk family over the Eurocopter effort...

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Re: Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by SW1 »

mrclark303 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 18:32
SW1 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 18:04
mrclark303 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 17:52
Tempest414 wrote: 02 Feb 2022, 12:28
Lord Jim wrote: 30 Jan 2022, 21:53 What role would the RAF AW-149s have that the AAC ones cannot do? As for the Wildcat, it has become a worthy successor to the Gazelle in the Recce Role and in supporting the Apache. The AAC has a wish list of additional capabilities they would like on their Wildcats, most already fitted to the FAA version. The H-135 may have a role as a communication platform replacing existing helicopters as a suggestion for the RAF helicopters but they would only need ten or so to fulfil that role. I would give all the AW-149s to the AAC and have them take on the roles of support units in Cyprus and Brunei. I also favour having the AW-149s able to be armed with weapons in additions to any Door Guns to provide a capability that would compliment the Apache and allow the AW-149s the ability to operate in areas of risk when Apaches are not available.
There are loads of roles for a RAF AW-149 fleet on top of a AAC AW-149 fleet and I can see some need for a weapons package for Aw-149 I would also make the RAF AW-149's carrier capable allowing them to beef up the FCF leaving the AAC to get on and support the Army
Certainly basic carrier capability needs to be mandatory to give maximum utility to a small fleet of helicopters.

Manual folding blades, warship compatible avionics, tie down points and suitable corrosion treatment.

As is widely known, Puma was dangerous to operate regarding shipborne ops in anything bar the most benign conditions, or war service when safety concerns are 'relaxed' as they say.

It's top heavy design made it potentially extremely dangerous on a pitching platform.

I'm also broadly in favour of an armament package to allow self escort when needed, specifically regarding SF use.
Must be off to war….

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 419%29.jpg

And yet France, Romania, Chile, Brazil, Singapore and the USNS all use Puma at sea.
Thanks for posting the "where's Wally" picture. I give up SW1, I can't spot the standard Puma ... Plenty of Cougars and and a SeaHawk though...

The Super Puma/ Cougar is an inherently more stable platform with its greater length and slightly wider placement of main gear.

The most interesting thing about the picture is the obvious greater stability in the basic design of the SeaHawk/ Blackhawk family over the Eurocopter effort...
Thought it nice to show it on one of our cast offs

Here’s a us navy one

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... ommand.jpg

Or on the mistral

https://www.seaforces.org/marint/French ... -class.htm

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Re: Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by mrclark303 »

SW1 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 18:38
mrclark303 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 18:32
SW1 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 18:04
mrclark303 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 17:52
Tempest414 wrote: 02 Feb 2022, 12:28
Lord Jim wrote: 30 Jan 2022, 21:53 What role would the RAF AW-149s have that the AAC ones cannot do? As for the Wildcat, it has become a worthy successor to the Gazelle in the Recce Role and in supporting the Apache. The AAC has a wish list of additional capabilities they would like on their Wildcats, most already fitted to the FAA version. The H-135 may have a role as a communication platform replacing existing helicopters as a suggestion for the RAF helicopters but they would only need ten or so to fulfil that role. I would give all the AW-149s to the AAC and have them take on the roles of support units in Cyprus and Brunei. I also favour having the AW-149s able to be armed with weapons in additions to any Door Guns to provide a capability that would compliment the Apache and allow the AW-149s the ability to operate in areas of risk when Apaches are not available.
There are loads of roles for a RAF AW-149 fleet on top of a AAC AW-149 fleet and I can see some need for a weapons package for Aw-149 I would also make the RAF AW-149's carrier capable allowing them to beef up the FCF leaving the AAC to get on and support the Army
Certainly basic carrier capability needs to be mandatory to give maximum utility to a small fleet of helicopters.

Manual folding blades, warship compatible avionics, tie down points and suitable corrosion treatment.

As is widely known, Puma was dangerous to operate regarding shipborne ops in anything bar the most benign conditions, or war service when safety concerns are 'relaxed' as they say.

It's top heavy design made it potentially extremely dangerous on a pitching platform.

I'm also broadly in favour of an armament package to allow self escort when needed, specifically regarding SF use.
Must be off to war….

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 419%29.jpg

And yet France, Romania, Chile, Brazil, Singapore and the USNS all use Puma at sea.
Thanks for posting the "where's Wally" picture. I give up SW1, I can't spot the standard Puma ... Plenty of Cougars and and a SeaHawk though...

The Super Puma/ Cougar is an inherently more stable platform with its greater length and slightly wider placement of main gear.

The most interesting thing about the picture is the obvious greater stability in the basic design of the SeaHawk/ Blackhawk family over the Eurocopter effort...
Thought it nice to show it on one of our cast offs

Here’s a us navy one

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... ommand.jpg

Or on the mistral

https://www.seaforces.org/marint/French ... -class.htm
Nice to see Ocean still steaming along....

Certainly the French have a more liberal attitude towards safety in general, cough, cough Concorde crash, cough....

Again, only in the most benign of sea states, the pumas high centre of gravity make it a rather dangerous exercise in anything else, unless you wish to chuck your deck crew into a meat grinder of course 😂.

I

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Re: Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by RunningStrong »

mrclark303 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 19:15 Again, only in the most benign of sea states, the pumas high centre of gravity make it a rather dangerous exercise in anything else, unless you wish to chuck your deck crew into a meat grinder of course 😂.
So there are significant differences between the 'inherently' dangerous SA 330 and the off-shore services commercial success AS332?

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Re: Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by mrclark303 »

RunningStrong wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 19:29
mrclark303 wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 19:15 Again, only in the most benign of sea states, the pumas high centre of gravity make it a rather dangerous exercise in anything else, unless you wish to chuck your deck crew into a meat grinder of course 😂.
So there are significant differences between the 'inherently' dangerous SA 330 and the off-shore services commercial success AS332?
Well yes, if your oil rig helicopter pad is pitching by several feet in four dimensions like a frigate flight deck, then Pumas questionably high centre of gravity is the very least of your problems!

In UK service, maritime use of the Puma was (and is) restricted to limited use in the most benign of sea states, it will remain so until it leaves service.

Boscombe Down Test pilots flagged up the potential toppling issue at the earliest stages of UK acceptance flight testing, the French typically did a nonchalant galic shrug and probably thought we worry too much......

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Re: Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by SW1 »

What was the yarn about mothballing these helicopters before their introduction again?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65096493

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Re: Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

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Re: Gazelle Helicopter (RN & AAC)

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(Forces News) 26th October 2023
The Gazelle helicopter began its British military career on 6 July 1974, and after nearly 50 years of service that spanned all branches of the Armed Forces this trusted aircraft is set to retire at the end of the month. But what kept it in the Army Air Corps' inventory for so long?

Fast, nimble and agile, it was the "sports car of the air", explained David Caldwell, who flew Gazelles in the Army Air Corps from 1976 to 2009.

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