UK Defence Forum

The other thing we were assured a UAV could not do.......





http://www.ga-asi.com/ga-asi-hosts-indu ... k-partners

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SW1 wrote:
https://www.ultra-css.com/products-capa ... ission-pod

A very smart solution, and the new RG1s will have a 24 hr endurance. But will they be ably to carry both the detection plus give-chase kit?
... or we send them out in pairs?
Or, a quick 'phone call' to a P-8, loitering in the general area and capable of quick transit, before the contact is lost?

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

SW1 wrote:
https://www.ultra-css.com/products-capa ... ission-pod

A very smart solution, and the new RG1s will have a 24 hr endurance. But will they be ably to carry both the detection plus give-chase kit?
... or we send them out in pairs?
Or, a quick 'phone call' to a P-8, loitering in the general area and capable of quick transit, before the contact is lost?

A systems of systems approach instead of one very expensive platform doing everything you could get a helicopter from a ship in the area assigned, multiple uavs operating in pairs and unmanned surface vessel in the area a submarine or an a/c carrying a torpeado. Pity we didn’t embrace this route fully at sdsr 2015 and back the uk companies developing these systems.

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

SW1 wrote:
https://www.ultra-css.com/products-capa ... ission-pod

A very smart solution, and the new RG1s will have a 24 hr endurance. But will they be ably to carry both the detection plus give-chase kit?
... or we send them out in pairs?
Or, a quick 'phone call' to a P-8, loitering in the general area and capable of quick transit, before the contact is lost?

I think they have total endurance of about 48 hours and can carry 2 x PW-IV and 12 x Brimstone 2. That payload should allow a number of sonobouys and 2 x Stingray (or the high altitude set up for the Mk54)

Old RN wrote:I think they have total endurance of about 48 hours and can carry 2 x PW-IV and 12 x Brimstone 2. That payload should allow a number of sonobouys and 2 x Stingray (or the high altitude set up for the Mk54)

Much closer than my 24 hrs
"According to GA-ASI, the CPB has a maximum operating altitude of 45,000 ft (compared with 50,000 ft for the Reaper), a maximum endurance of more than 40 hours (compared with 27 hours for the Reaper), and a maximum air speed of 200 kt (compared with 240 kt for the Reaper). The CPB also has nine external stories stations, compared with five for the Reaper."
but unclear how much the stores carried would impact that (max).

SW1 wrote:The other thing we were assured a UAV could not do.......

Really? GA have been selling this concept for years now, and the US even paid for a trial.

Hope it does go somewhere, it would make a lot of sense working to extend the reach of a P8, and put the idea of a Triton purchase to bed.

shark bait wrote: put the idea of a Triton purchase to bed.

Agree; how many 'one-trick ponies' can we afford?

Would the Protector be of any use as a Maritime Patrol and surveillance platform? I can see it being of some use, flying from shore, even in situation such as off the coast of Somalia, where it could identify Pirates and possibly take action if needed. Working with a P-8 it would extent the ability to visually identify objects spotted by the P-8s radar over a far greater range.

shark bait wrote:

SW1 wrote:The other thing we were assured a UAV could not do.......

Really? GA have been selling this concept for years now, and the US even paid for a trial.

Hope it does go somewhere, it would make a lot of sense working to extend the reach of a P8, and put the idea of a Triton purchase to bed.

Yep really and I’m going back about 8 years!

If they try to buy triton then they deserve to have there budget cut.

Lord Jim wrote:Would the Protector be of any use as a Maritime Patrol and surveillance platform? I can see it being of some use, flying from shore, even in situation such as off the coast of Somalia, where it could identify Pirates and possibly take action if needed. Working with a P-8 it would extent the ability to visually identify objects spotted by the P-8s radar over a far greater range.

The reaper has been flown with a selex 7500 radar in a pod and it’s excellent for surveillance on sea in particular.

(Forces TV) 22nd October 2019

The Royal Air Force Reaper drones are on the frontline in the fight against terrorism. The crew manning the drones have been involved in targetting so-called Islamic State fighters, monitoring their every move over both Iraq and Syria. The Reaper drones fly from and over the Middle East, but they are controlled by two RAF squadrons thousands of miles away. We spoke to the crews who operate the aircraft from Lincolnshire.

One Reaper out of service:

There were 20 and only ten were kept; was the other half only on lease?

Well, the nxt-gen will soon be with us; even there the numbers have been slightly cut. But will the later batch be for ' over the sea' or has it turned into a mere option?

What's the transition plan? 1 for 1? Or take out a circuit at a time, whatever that migh be (4-6?)?

I wonder if the new Protector will be used over the UK during counter terrorist operations. Their ability to stay on station far longer than a helicopter and be far higher would have advantages. Obviously I am not suggesting using the platforms in an armed configuration here though I am sure there could be occasions where the thought may cross some peoples minds.

ArmChairCivvy wrote:There were 20 and only ten were kept; was the other half only on lease?

The latest (2019) 7 in use and 3 stored... still going on about the transition plan: Is Watchkeeper going to take some of (the more tactical) roles?

I am surprised 39 Squadron are not going to be the operators of the Protector as they ran the Reapers, or was 31 Squadron a typo?

31 is no typo; but it does not necessarily mean 39 won't also get Protector. 2 squadrons for 10 Reaper (now less than 10), suggest that 31 Sqn won't be alone either.

Last year 7 Reapers were still in use, there is a huge number of Watchkeepers and we will soon be getting Reaper Edition2 (Protector)
- so what's the overlap; how is that reflected in the organisation or chain of command
- is it that the longer ranged ones will relay back via satellite only, whereas for Watckeepers (mobile) groundsations will be deployed, to widen the bandwidth and cut down the cycle time from spotting to action?

Lord Jim wrote:I wonder if the new Protector will be used over the UK during counter terrorist operations. Their ability to stay on station far longer than a helicopter and be far higher would have advantages. Obviously I am not suggesting using the platforms in an armed configuration here though I am sure there could be occasions where the thought may cross some peoples minds.

In truth the ability for a UAV to operate in controlled airspace safely could lead to the eventual replacement of most of the UK's Police Helicopters. UAV's are dramatically cheaper to run and operate. The Greater Manchester Police operated a Britten Norman Defender instead of a helicopter for a number of years. It was a whole lot easier to crew, available in worse weather conditions, far, far cheaper to run and faster to get on station either from a ground start or transit. In 10 years expect to see Police Forces across the UK using large numbers of UAV's. Which IMHO is a god and bad thing..,

The police still operate fixed wing aircraft out of Doncaster airport, part of the NPAS (National Police Air Service)

Imagine is they were equipped with a non lethal system to disable cars quickly and safely. That would give the TWOCers* food for thought one minute off down the dual carriageway next minute the engine dies .

*(Taken Without Owners Consent ers)

You would think with the amount of hellfires we have went through getting PavewayIV bombs & Brimstone missiles on our drones would have been a higher priority.

Jdam wrote: getting PavewayIV bombs & Brimstone missiles on our drones would have been a higher priority.

Do you mean not slowing down the overall project... or how?

Brimstone was test fired from a Reaper 6 years ago and we still continued to use Hellfire.