New Zealand Defence Force

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
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Cutaway
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New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Cutaway »

If anyone here is up for discussing anything to do with the New Zealand Defence Force, post here.

arfah
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by arfah »

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QuaPatetOrbis
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by QuaPatetOrbis »

How much do the Kiwis spend on their defense? Don't they only have like 2 combat battalions?

_a_Kiwi_
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by _a_Kiwi_ »

QuaPatetOrbis wrote:How much do the Kiwis spend on their defense? Don't they only have like 2 combat battalions?
2 infantry battalions,an armoured regiment, an artillery regiment, a signals regiment, a engineer regiment, a logistics regiment and a SAS regiment in the regular (non TF) force.

Certainly not large, but adequate for it tasks.

On the other hand, the squadron of P-3s is considerably better than the UK can manage!

marktigger
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by marktigger »

true but at least we can intercept intruders in our airspace ;)

_a_Kiwi_
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by _a_Kiwi_ »

The Bear is impressive, but making it to Auckland from Vladivostok would be quiet an achievement

marktigger
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by marktigger »

lol

russian or Chinese carriers playing in the southern ocean though might be a little different

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WhitestElephant
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by WhitestElephant »

Though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are. - Lord Tennyson (Ulysses)

IrishT
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by IrishT »

QuaPatetOrbis wrote:How much do the Kiwis spend on their defense?
A little over $3bn at the moment.
marktigger wrote:lol

russian or Chinese carriers playing in the southern ocean though might be a little different
Ah, the mighty Russian Navy. The one who needed tugboats to make sure their ships didn't fail in the journey from Russia to Australia for the G20 Summit. The one whose North Sea Fleet had to sit in the Seine with its tugboats and practice fire-safety and electronic-warfare drills because the Atlantic was a bit stormy. :/

You should read the stories about when the Russians shifted their Baltic Sea Fleet to aid their Pacific Squadron against the Japanese during the Russo-Japanese (1904) war. It's comedy gold.

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desertswo
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by desertswo »

marktigger wrote:lol

russian or Chinese carriers playing in the southern ocean though might be a little different
Our Antipodean "cousins" have relatives north of the equator they can count on. It wouldn't be the first time we've spilled blood together.
"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now . . ."

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desertswo
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

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IrishT wrote:Ah, the mighty Russian Navy. The one who needed tugboats to make sure their ships didn't fail in the journey from Russia to Australia for the G20 Summit. The one whose North Sea Fleet had to sit in the Seine with its tugboats and practice fire-safety and electronic-warfare drills because the Atlantic was a bit stormy. :/

You should read the stories about when the Russians shifted their Baltic Sea Fleet to aid their Pacific Squadron against the Japanese during the Russo-Japanese (1904) war. It's comedy gold.
It is indeed a sort of tragic comedy. They had one truly competent engineering officer whom they moved from ship to ship to repair this and that, so that they could continue to limp toward disaster. Just before they reached Tsushima he'd had enough and blew his brains out with a revolver. The rest, as they say, is history. The Tide at Sunrise was required reading when I was a student at the US Naval War College.

I could fill these threads with observations of how the Soviet Navy used to "operate" when deployed, but I can pare it down to two words, one of which is a contraction; simply put, "they didn't."
"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now . . ."

IrishT
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by IrishT »

desertswo wrote:It is indeed a sort of tragic comedy. They had one truly competent engineering officer whom they moved from ship to ship to repair this and that, so that they could continue to limp toward disaster. Just before they reached Tsushima he'd had enough and blew his brains out with a revolver. The rest, as they say, is history. The Tide at Sunrise was required reading when I was a student at the US Naval War College.

I could fill these threads with observations of how the Soviet Navy used to "operate" when deployed, but I can pare it down to two words, one of which is a contraction; simply put, "they didn't."
What did you sign up as, if you don't mind my asking? I presume you enjoyed it, if you're on military-related forums :D

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desertswo
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by desertswo »

IrishT wrote:
desertswo wrote:It is indeed a sort of tragic comedy. They had one truly competent engineering officer whom they moved from ship to ship to repair this and that, so that they could continue to limp toward disaster. Just before they reached Tsushima he'd had enough and blew his brains out with a revolver. The rest, as they say, is history. The Tide at Sunrise was required reading when I was a student at the US Naval War College.

I could fill these threads with observations of how the Soviet Navy used to "operate" when deployed, but I can pare it down to two words, one of which is ma bcontraction; simply put, "they didn't."
What did you sign up as, if you don't mind my asking? I presume you enjoyed it, if you're on military-related forums :D
If I understand the question correctly, I enlisted in the US Navy after I graduated from university, and was sent immediately to Officer Candidate School in Newport, Rhode Island and was commissioned as an Ensign in February of 1979. The next 24 plus years I served as a Surface Warfare Officer in four ships (an aircraft carrier, two frigates, and a cruiser) and one afloat staff (CINCPACFLT), as well as various shore stations where I trained others. I also served on the Joint Staff at the Pentagon as an analyst and planner in counter-terrorism among other things, and yes, I was there on 9/11. I retired as Captain in July of 2003 . . . like so:

Image

Did I enjoy it? Truth is, I woke up one day and 25 years had gone by and they had made me a Captain. I realized it was time to go for a lot of reasons, but most of all, I wasn't having any fun anymore. So yeah, despite all the heartache of lengthy family separations while deployed, and losing friends in combat or just normal operations and training (there are more ways to get killed on a warship than you can shake a stick at), I had a hell of a good time. I wouldn't trade mine with anyone else's life for anything. ;)
"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now . . ."

R686
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

_a_Kiwi_ wrote:
QuaPatetOrbis wrote:How much do the Kiwis spend on their defense? Don't they only have like 2 combat battalions?
2 infantry battalions,an armoured regiment, an artillery regiment, a signals regiment, a engineer regiment, a logistics regiment and a SAS regiment in the regular (non TF) force.

Certainly not large, but adequate for it tasks.

On the other hand, the squadron of P-3s is considerably better than the UK can manage!

And that's with a population of 4.5 million, but in saying that you had a more high end capabilty in years gone by with less but that goes with the times in the steam era.

marktigger
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by marktigger »

when does HMNZS Endeavour go out of service and are there any plans for her replacement?

R686
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

marktigger wrote:when does HMNZS Endeavour go out of service and are there any plans for her replacement?

There is a RFI for her at the moment, havent heard anything lately but the was some thinking in the line of a JSS, something the lines of Karel Doorman(A833) but I think the budget might get in the way of that idea

R686
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HMNZS Endeavour RFI details

Post by R686 »

I found the details on the RFI HMNZS Endeavour replacement,

The MoD released a request for information in April 2013 for the MPSC which ‘will be capable of refuelling and sustaining military forces both at sea (underway and midocean) and from the sea (to forces ashore). It should also be able to sustain land forces, and support humanitarian assistance and disaster relief missions.’

The RfI calls for a ship capable of carrying 8,000t of ship fuel and a minimum of 1,700t of aviation fuel, a significant increase compared to the 150t now carried by Endeavour.

The ship must be able to operate medium-sized helicopters such as the Royal New Zealand Air Force’s SH-2G Seasprites and the new NH90s, with an option for operating a CH-47 Chinook. The Endeavour has not been able to support a maritime helicopter since the Seasprite replaced the smaller Westland Wasp in 1998.

The MPSC should have a minimum of 260 lane metres for vehicles, the capability for lift on/lift off operations up to 25t to transfer embarked cargo, and will carry two 65t landing craft. The ship’s performance requirements include a minimum 8,000nm range at 16kt and a top speed of 18kt. The ship should be able to operate from December to March in Antarctic waters as far south as the McMurdo Sounds. 

The RfI stipulates a ship’s company of 70 and the ability to embark up to 50 passengers. For self-defence the MPSC will be equipped with an ‘appropriate number’ of manually operated .50cal heavy machine guns and/or space for a close in weapon system such as the Phalanx. 

The MPSC is expected to have a minimum service life of 25 years.

marktigger
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by marktigger »

something like Karel Doorman could replace both endeavour and cantebury

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swoop
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by swoop »

marktigger wrote:when does HMNZS Endeavour go out of service and are there any plans for her replacement?
Supposedly 2017. Don't hold your breath though.

She was due for withdrawal a few years back as her commercial construction has left major work required, and from a very small crew this is rather difficult to keep on top of.

arfah
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by arfah »

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NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

R686 wrote:
_a_Kiwi_ wrote: And that's with a population of 4.5 million, but in saying that you had a more high end capabilty in years gone by with less but that goes with the times in the steam era.
Or putting into a better prospective about 800,000 - 1 million tax payers...

Navy
x1 MRV - HMNZS Canterbury
- She had a rough start but is showing her worth now.
x1 AOR - HMNZS Endeavour - She has had a full active life but new international laws has reduced her load. An RFI is out for tender. And replacemnet due in 2018 there is talk the NAVY wants a JSS style vessel to supplement Canterbury.
x2 FFG ANZAC Frigates - HMNZS Te Kaha, & Te Mana - Currently going through mid life upgrades including CAMM Sea Ceptor, New radar and sensors, MASS few other odds and bods...
x2 OPV - HMNZS Otago & Wellington. Again a rough start but are now showing their worth in patrols from the Antarctic to equator
x4 IPV - HMNZS Taupo, Hawea, Rotoiti & Pukaki - They have been patrolling, there was talk on reducing the IPV fleet to 2 and increasing to a 3rd OPV.
x1 Dive Tender - HMNZS Manawanui - She has just chugged on and is due to retire soon and be replaced with a more latorial vessel dive tender and survey.

Air Force
x8 NH-90
2 of them have been cleared to deploy on HMNZS Canterbury for Exercise Talisman Sabre 2015
x8 A109
x8 SH-2G(i) these are the Aussie rejected ones, problems were resolved & the auto pilot the RNZAF don't use and have a hands on policy. This was the main use as the Aussies wanted a hands off auto pilot because the have a crew of 2, RNZAF and RNZN have a crew of 3 so pilot will always have hands on. The Sea Spites carry The AGM 119 Pengiun Missle & MK46 Torpedo. We no longer use the AGM65 Maverick.
x5 C-130H - These are due to be replaced in around 3 years 2018 on. Most likely A400m. There was interest in the C17 but it appears a no go. Howere the C-17 weren't going to replace the C-130
x2 B757 These were the aircraft that the C-17's were going to replace. I don't know the status or replacement program for these as of yet.
x6 P3k2 - have just had a upgrade in electronics and life extension
x11 Beechcraft T-6 Texan II - Air Trainers I believe all have now been delivered.
x4 Super King Air. As far as I know these do their job as a multi engine trainer and various other light duties

And don't talk to me about not having a combat wing... mumble mumble swear curse mutter...

Army
x105 NZLAV III
- They have don there job, but the army still want to reduce the number and replace with tracked vehicles
  1. 95 Infantry Mobility Vehicle (IMV)
  2. 7 Light Obstacle Blade Vehicle (LOB)
  3. 3 Recovery Vehicle (LAV-R)
Light Operational Vehicles or LOV
x352 Pinzgauer High Mobility All-Terrain Vehicle (248 non-armoured / 60 armoured)
  1. 122 / 23 command and control variants
  2. 68 / 37 crew served weapon carrier variants
  3. 95 general service variants
  4. 15 shelter carrier variants
  5. 8 ambulance variants
  6. 13 special operations
Support Vehicles
x194 MAN HX trucks
The Unimog is still in operation but will slowly be phased out.

Fire support/artillery
  1. L16A2 81 mm Mortar
  2. 105 mm L119 Light Gun
  3. M6C-640T 60mm mortar
  4. M72 Light Anti-Armour Weapon
  5. 84 mm Carl Gustav recoilless rifle M3 Man-portable Light Anti-armour Weapon
  6. Javelin Anti-Tank Guided Missile
Mistral Very Low Level Air Defence Weapon is no longer in service

The Army is looking at options to replacement of the aging 5.56mm IW Steyr

In the up and coming years we have some big purchases and replacements to cough up money for, from the C-130, to the ANZAC repalcement

R686
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

I knew gov wanted to reduce the NZLAV fleet but did not know they wanted a tracked vehicle as well.

If that's the case it might be better to replace NZLAV with Bushmaster in numbers plus something like CV90

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

R686 wrote:I knew gov wanted to reduce the NZLAV fleet but did not know they wanted a tracked vehicle as well.

If that's the case it might be better to replace NZLAV with Bushmaster in numbers plus something like CV90
The army want tracked vehicles... the gubbermint will most likely say no :cry: ... you have what you have, deal with it as the NZDF have in the past.

The issue with most kiwi's is they believe there is no threat to them... we are in the middle of nowhere and very few countries have the power to invade (and 2 of them are allies) the 3rd would really really struggle to do it, and the forth is the one we are all keeping our eyes on. So because of this they want a minimal defense force. They do see that we are part of a world community and need to do our part in keeping the peace and patrolling the world shipping lanes etc... They live in their own little world and don't want change.

I am ex RNZN and know a little different, in my time we tracked many Russian subs on the boarder of our waters. I know that ISIS want power and will not stop till they have it, and then it will spread to every Muslim country and they to every western country... It has to be stopped to keep our freedoms we enjoy today.

I know our exports and economy is small (tiny infact) but we have to protect our exports and imports to keep any fessable economy we can not just rely on other nations to do it,

I know our armed forces are small and sometimes under equipped, but we have always and I mean always put up our hand and said we will help... we can only offer this much but we will help... so what has changed...?

marktigger
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by marktigger »

ANZAC replacement Type 26 Frigate?

Tracked vehicle the SCOUT ?

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

marktigger wrote:ANZAC replacement Type 26 Frigate?

Tracked vehicle the SCOUT ?
More like;

Will you take a row boat and spud gun...

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