New Zealand Defence Force

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

J. Tattersall wrote:So has the RNZN sold HMNZS Rotoiti and HMNZS Pukaki (to Ireland?) yet?
Haven't seen anything offical yet other than from the Irish Article that they are officially looking at...

R686
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

KiwiMuzz wrote:
R686 wrote:
swoop wrote:
NighthawkNZ wrote:The OPV's Wellington and Otago are known Protector Class OPV as is HMNZS Canterbury classed as a Protector-fleet amphibious and military sealift vessel...
Sounds just like everything is a "protector" now. Presumably so the socialists' do not have to read that NZ has any form of offensive capability and have fallen in line with the UN's dogma.
That's because the fleet renewal project was for a sealift ship, OPV & IPV were part of the greater project known as Project Protector, would no doubt it would not have succeeded with a warlike project name under Aunty Helen
Perhaps the reason there is no warlike project name is because it is not a warlike project. The objective was patrolling the EEZ and providing HADR for the South Pacific. Hardly something you would label "Operation Skullcrusher" :P
No, was not the point I was making, but we are talking about pleasing Aunty here. The project could have been defined for the class of vessels the point being it could have had a more aggressive class names for the patrol boats such as Archer or Attack class

KiwiMuzz
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by KiwiMuzz »

R686 wrote:
KiwiMuzz wrote:
R686 wrote:
swoop wrote:
NighthawkNZ wrote:The OPV's Wellington and Otago are known Protector Class OPV as is HMNZS Canterbury classed as a Protector-fleet amphibious and military sealift vessel...
Sounds just like everything is a "protector" now. Presumably so the socialists' do not have to read that NZ has any form of offensive capability and have fallen in line with the UN's dogma.
That's because the fleet renewal project was for a sealift ship, OPV & IPV were part of the greater project known as Project Protector, would no doubt it would not have succeeded with a warlike project name under Aunty Helen
Perhaps the reason there is no warlike project name is because it is not a warlike project. The objective was patrolling the EEZ and providing HADR for the South Pacific. Hardly something you would label "Operation Skullcrusher" :P
No, was not the point I was making, but we are talking about pleasing Aunty here. The project could have been defined for the class of vessels the point being it could have had a more aggressive class names for the patrol boats such as Archer or Attack class
More aggressive to prove what exactly? How big & tough we are? NZDF get their credibility from the actions and standards of their personnel, not warry-sounding names.

R686
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

KiwiMuzz wrote:
R686 wrote:
KiwiMuzz wrote:
R686 wrote:
swoop wrote:
NighthawkNZ wrote:The OPV's Wellington and Otago are known Protector Class OPV as is HMNZS Canterbury classed as a Protector-fleet amphibious and military sealift vessel...
Sounds just like everything is a "protector" now. Presumably so the socialists' do not have to read that NZ has any form of offensive capability and have fallen in line with the UN's dogma.
That's because the fleet renewal project was for a sealift ship, OPV & IPV were part of the greater project known as Project Protector, would no doubt it would not have succeeded with a warlike project name under Aunty Helen
Perhaps the reason there is no warlike project name is because it is not a warlike project. The objective was patrolling the EEZ and providing HADR for the South Pacific. Hardly something you would label "Operation Skullcrusher" :P
No, was not the point I was making, but we are talking about pleasing Aunty here. The project could have been defined for the class of vessels the point being it could have had a more aggressive class names for the patrol boats such as Archer or Attack class
More aggressive to prove what exactly? How big & tough we are? NZDF get their credibility from the actions and standards of their personnel, not warry-sounding names.
You are missing the point all together, you can call the thing what you want all I was demonstrating is the need to please those in the beehive and there own agenda

But yes aggressive names subconsciously do have a net worth towards internal moral for the members of the NZDF no matter how much it’s leaders detested certain aspects of the DF

Aunty Helen certainly got her way when she protested the arrival of Skyhawks and the abandonment of the ACF

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

KiwiMuzz wrote: More aggressive to prove what exactly? How big & tough we are? NZDF get their credibility from the actions and standards of their personnel, not warry-sounding names.
If the project was called "Project Attack" people will be up in arms saying why are we spend money on attack patrol craft who are we going to attack. We don't nee attack patrol craft blah blah... I title becomes very subjective and can be a subliminal reference.

Project Protector the word protector on the other hand is about defence... not offence it makes it an easier sell to the public.

They could have actually built some attack patrol vessels and still called it Project Protector, and it would have still been an easier sell than calling "Project Attack"

KiwiMuzz
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by KiwiMuzz »

NighthawkNZ wrote:
KiwiMuzz wrote: More aggressive to prove what exactly? How big & tough we are? NZDF get their credibility from the actions and standards of their personnel, not warry-sounding names.
If the project was called "Project Attack" people will be up in arms saying why are we spend money on attack patrol craft who are we going to attack. We don't nee attack patrol craft blah blah... I title becomes very subjective and can be a subliminal reference.

Project Protector the word protector on the other hand is about defence... not offence it makes it an easier sell to the public.

They could have actually built some attack patrol vessels and still called it Project Protector, and it would have still been an easier sell than calling "Project Attack"
Well, as far as combat ships go, I think "Te Kaha" and "Te Mana" get message across nicely :-)

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

KiwiMuzz wrote:
NighthawkNZ wrote:
KiwiMuzz wrote: More aggressive to prove what exactly? How big & tough we are? NZDF get their credibility from the actions and standards of their personnel, not warry-sounding names.
If the project was called "Project Attack" people will be up in arms saying why are we spend money on attack patrol craft who are we going to attack. We don't nee attack patrol craft blah blah... I title becomes very subjective and can be a subliminal reference.

Project Protector the word protector on the other hand is about defence... not offence it makes it an easier sell to the public.

They could have actually built some attack patrol vessels and still called it Project Protector, and it would have still been an easier sell than calling "Project Attack"
Well, as far as combat ships go, I think "Te Kaha" and "Te Mana" get message across nicely :-)
They weren't part of "Project Protector" though and the only reason "Project Protector" came into being was because they (NZG) quickly realised 2 frigates weren't enough to fulfill the roles of 4 frigates and 8 IPC's (Both Lake Class and the Moa Class) and could only be in 2 places at once... They weren't too good at math back then... They also realised since the mid 80's they needed sealift capability and after the debarckle of HMNZS Charles Upham Project Protector was formed and they still buggered it up with Canterbury.... but have been able to make it work.

Even now our frigates get thrashed and overworked and need to get back to a four frigate navy... Minimum. The older something gets and more overused it is the more expensive it becomes to operate. The OPV's have helped but they are limited in capability.

KiwiMuzz
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by KiwiMuzz »

Well, as far as combat ships go, I think "Te Kaha" and "Te Mana" get message across nicely :-)[/quote]

They weren't part of "Project Protector" though and the only reason "Project Protector" came into being was because they (NZG) quickly realised 2 frigates weren't enough to fulfill the roles of 4 frigates and 8 IPC's (Both Lake Class and the Moa Class) and could only be in 2 places at once... They weren't too good at math back then... They also realised since the mid 80's they needed sealift capability and after the debarckle of HMNZS Charles Upham Project Protector was formed and they still buggered it up with Canterbury.... but have been able to make it work.

Even now our frigates get thrashed and overworked and need to get back to a four frigate navy... Minimum. The older something gets and more overused it is the more expensive it becomes to operate. The OPV's have helped but they are limited in capability.[/quote]

Yes, thank you, I am aware the frigates are not part of Project Protector. I was simply trying, apparently without success, to make the point that their names (as combat assets) should be "aggressive" enough to keep you all happy.

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

KiwiMuzz wrote:Yes, thank you, I am aware the frigates are not part of Project Protector. I was simply trying, apparently without success, to make the point that their names (as combat assets) should be "aggressive" enough to keep you all happy.
Only if you know the meaning of their names translated to your particular language... :crazy: :wtf:

HMNZS Te Mana approximately translates as 'status' or 'authority'
HMNZS Te Kaha approximately translates 'fighting prowess' or 'strength. (The kiwi saying "Kia Kaha" "stay strong")

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

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New Zealand Army's role in evacuation mission involved 'bravery on both sides'
The safe passage of hundreds of evacuees from Afghanistan was made possible by an elite group of New Zealand soldiers who used code words and tactical landmarks to assist their efforts in an attempt to avoid chaotic and dangerous scenes.

Members of the New Zealand Army, deployed as part of the New Zealand Defence Force’s Operation Kōkako, were on the ground at Hamid Karzai International Airport (HKIA) in Kabul to help evacuate New Zealand nationals, their families and visa holders earlier this month.

The turbulent and dangerous environment saw Special Forces troops, including a Female Engagement Team, move deep into the security area designated around HKIA, at times utilising a canal, to reach those they had been sent to help, guiding them through the crowds to points on the perimeter where they could be brought into the airport, secured, and safely evacuated.
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http://nighthawk.nz/index.php/5036-new- ... both-sides

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

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NZDF exercises with international counterparts in South East Asia
The New Zealand Defence Force is to participate in an international defence exercise in South East Asia and will also interact with the United Kingdom’s Carrier Strike Group (CSG) as it conducts engagement activities in the Indo-Pacific region.

Royal New Zealand Navy frigate HMNZS Te Kaha and replenishment tanker HMNZS Aotearoa, with a Seasprite helicopter on board, have this week departed Auckland’s Hauraki Gulf for the next 2-3 months at sea.

Aircrew on a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion will join the naval Task Group for Bersama Gold 21, a major exercise on the international calendar marking the 50th anniversary of the Five Power Defence Arrangements (FPDA). The Orion will also interact with the UK CSG.
Commander Joint Forces New Zealand Rear Admiral Jim Gilmour said exercising with international militaries enhanced inter-operability and strengthened relationships, critical to NZDF’s contribution to the rules-based international order.

FPDA exercises are designed to offer significant value by enhancing cooperation on conventional military operations, building trust and confidence, developing greater people-to-people links and fostering interoperability between the armed forces of the member nations - Australia, United Kingdom, Singapore, Malaysia and New Zealand.

“Deploying naval and air assets solidifies our long-standing relationships with our FPDA partners and our on-going commitment to the region,” Rear Admiral Gilmour said.

The aim of Bersama Gold 21, to be held off the coast of Singapore and the Malaysian Peninsula, is to exercise FPDA defence forces in the conduct of Combined and Joint Operations in a multi-threat environment. The exercise will commence with Force Integration Training and conclude with a War-at-Sea exercise.
Rear Admiral Gilmour has also confirmed the NZDF’s intention to accept the invitation of the Royal Navy to interact with the UK CSG.

The exact nature of the interaction with the UK CSG is to be finalised but will involve transit in company in East and South East Asia.

Maritime Component Commander Commodore Mat Williams said Royal New Zealand Navy ships regularly conduct interoperability exercises and readiness training activities outside of formal exercises.

“With HMNZS Aotearoa and HMNZS Te Kaha in the area for Bersama Gold 21, every opportunity is taken to operate with partners,’’ he said.

The New Zealand Task Group was likely to operate with French Forces in the Pacific en route to Bersama Gold 21 and the Royal Australian Navy on the ships’ return to New Zealand, in addition to interactions with Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore, he said.

“The introduction of new capabilities, with Te Kaha’s Frigate Systems Upgrade and with this being HMNZS Aotearoa’s first operational deployment to the South East Asia region, also makes this an ideal time to engage with partners and put capabilities to the test.’’
The NZDF has operated in the South East Asia region for decades as part of bilateral and regional defence engagement, and demonstrates its commitment to regional security through its presence in the region.

NZDF deployments exercise freedom of navigation and overflight. The NZDF undertakes all activities in accordance with international law, and for ships in particular the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

The NZDF has well-established COVID-19 prevention protocols. All deploying personnel have been vaccinated. Covid testing and health screening is also carried out prior to deployment.

Approximately 270 Navy and Air Force personnel are deploying on the two ships. A medical doctor for the Task Group, in addition to medics, has been deployed as part of measures to ensure the health and safety of personnel. RNZAF personnel also follow strict Covid-19 prevention procedures when deploying with the Orion aircraft.

The exercise arrangements for Bersama Gold 21 mitigate the risk of Covid-19 transmission due to the exercise being conducted “contactless” at sea and under strict protocols for the air elements.
http://nighthawk.nz/index.php/news/defe ... -east-asia

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

Fuelling up, Navy style Nearing the end of her 3,500 nautical mile sail to Guam, HMNZS Te Kaha comes alongside HMNZS Aotearoa for a top up of 50,000 litres.

She’ll be doing some miles on this Task Group deployment, so it’s critical that Te Kaha takes every opportunity to have a full fuel load aboard.

Image

Locked and loaded. It’s a 16 day sail from Devonport to Guam for HMNZS Te Kaha so a great opportunity for the ship’s crew to hone to perfection the seamanship skills and equipment training they received during Work Up. Firing practice on a .50Cal machine gun, one of Te Kaha’s many defensive weapons, is an important aspect of this.
Image
On Saturday afternoon, 50 nautical miles south of Guam, a sailor aboard HMNZS Aotearoa received a minor injury that medical personnel recommended be checked by specialists.
Image

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

A few more pic's of HMNZS Aotearoa and HMNZS Te Kaha with USS Clarleston LCS 18 just before they RAS

http://nighthawk.nz/index.php/news/defe ... charleston

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMNZS Aotearoa
A royal wave HMS Queen Elizabeth sails off the starboard beam of HMNZS Aotearoa as both ships engage in a series of exercises after meeting up off the coast of Guam.
Image

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NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

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New Bushmaster Armoured Vehicles Hit the Production Line
Production is underway for the first of New Zealand’s Bushmaster NZ5.5 vehicles by Thales Australia in Bendigo, Victoria.

The Bushmaster vehicles will provide New Zealand Army personnel with high levels of blast and ballistic protection. They are designed with a V hull, which redirects blasts out from under the vehicle, saving lives.

The Ministry is responsible for advising the government on defence policy and the acquisition of major defence equipment, such as the Bushmaster vehicle fleet.

Project teams are made up of experts of both Ministry of Defence staff and New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel, but the Ministry has particular responsibility for the selection of suppliers, contract negotiations and project management. NZDF personnel are responsible for the introduction into service, in-service and disposal phases, which for some capability is up to 30 years.

Ministry of Defence project team leader Gillian Rodger says a close working relationship, from the start of the process, has proven vital to the success of the project.

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I think they are due in 2022? I can't remember

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Tempest414
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Tempest414 »

So of interest the hole project cost is 103 million dollars for the 43 vehicles what will the package look like i.e how will it brake down

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

Tempest414 wrote:So of interest the hole project cost is 103 million dollars for the 43 vehicles what will the package look like i.e how will it brake down
Hopefully, they won't break down... Tada Boom :crazy: :lolno: :lolno: :lolno: (sorry couldn't resist that)

R686
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

NighthawkNZ wrote:
Tempest414 wrote:So of interest the hole project cost is 103 million dollars for the 43 vehicles what will the package look like i.e how will it brake down
Hopefully, they won't break down... Tada Boom :crazy: :lolno: :lolno: :lolno: (sorry couldn't resist that)
Everything’s goes US inevitably

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Tempest414
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Tempest414 »

OK lets try again is the 103 US or NZ dollars

RunningStrong
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by RunningStrong »

Tempest414 wrote:OK lets try again is the 103 US or NZ dollars
NZD. $63m USD.

https://www.army-technology.com/news/nz ... -vehicles/

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Tempest414
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Tempest414 »

Many thanks the link also had the brake down I was looking for and what they are spending the money on and it looks like Bushmaster is a good price at 52 million pounds for 43 vehicles , training , support equipment , sim and infastructure upgrade

Lord Jim
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Lord Jim »

Given that like New Zealand our SF also operate the Bushmaster, maybe the UK should look far more closely at this platform to fill the MRV(P) phase 2 programme. By the way is New Zealand looking to replace its LAVs, possibly following the Australian Army in adopting the Boxer to maintain a level of commonality that is often sought in order to reduce costs?

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

Lord Jim wrote:Given that like New Zealand our SF also operate the Bushmaster, maybe the UK should look far more closely at this platform to fill the MRV(P) phase 2 programme. By the way is New Zealand looking to replace its LAVs, possibly following the Australian Army in adopting the Boxer to maintain a level of commonality that is often sought in order to reduce costs?
I think we will end up just upgrading the LAV's like what Canada did...

We are now looking for a replacement for the general-purpose pinzgauer as well not sure when that is due...

RunningStrong
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by RunningStrong »

Lord Jim wrote:Given that like New Zealand our SF also operate the Bushmaster, maybe the UK should look far more closely at this platform to fill the MRV(P) phase 2 programme. By the way is New Zealand looking to replace its LAVs, possibly following the Australian Army in adopting the Boxer to maintain a level of commonality that is often sought in order to reduce costs?
Bushmaster is already a Part 2 finalist against the Eagle. How much closer should they look at it?

And 24 (very well used) vehicles doesn't influence a future fleet too heavily.

NighthawkNZ
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

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New Zealand warship sailing disputed South China Sea as Taiwan warns 'we will fight to end' if China attacks
A New Zealand Navy frigate is sailing through the disputed South China Sea as tensions between China and Taiwan escalate.

The Defence Force on Wednesday morning said the Royal New Zealand Navy Frigate Te Kaha is joining the United Kingdom's Carrier Strike Group (CSG) - which includes the massive HMS Queen Elizabeth - and other military partners to transit through the South China Sea.

Te Kaha and the replenishment tanker HMNZS Aotearoa set off from Auckland's Hauraki Gulf in September to interact with other nations in the Indo-Pacific. That includes for the Bersama Gold 21 exercise to mark the 50th anniversary of the Five Power Defence Arrangement (FPDA), of which New Zealand is a partner alongside Australia, Malaysia, Singapore and the UK.

The HMNZS Aotearoa has just finished its time with HMS Queen Elizabeth conducting exercises off the coast of Guam and "now it is HMNZS Te Kaha's turn as the frigate enters the South China Sea".

The waters are an area of major contention for surrounding countries. China claims much of the sea as its own, building artificial islands there and warning others not to sail close to what it refers to as its territory. Other nations have contested China's expansion and, in 2016, the Hague rejected China's historical claims.

New Zealand, as recently as August, has said there is no "legal basis for states to 'claim historic rights' with respect to maritime areas in the South China Sea", "no legal basis for continental states to claim archipelagic status", and that artificial islands "do not generate a territorial sea of their own".

Those comments were made in a diplomatic note in which New Zealand reiterated "that it does not take a position on competing claims of territorial sovereignty" in the waters. It also doesn't specifically name China.

In May, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison jointly "expressed serious concern over developments in the South China Sea, including the continued militarisation of disputed features and an intensification of destabilising activities at sea". China's Foreign Affairs Ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin called these and other remarks by the pair "irresponsible".

China, often through its state media, has made a number of threats towards other nations seeking to travel through the South China Sea. In July, as HMS Queen Elizabeth sailed the waters, the Global Times said the ship should stick to what China says are international waters or face a "confrontation".

The New Zealand Defence Force on Wednesday said it has operated in the South East Asia region "for decades as part of bilateral and regional defence engagement, and demonstrates its commitment to regional security through its presence in the region".

"NZDF deployments exercise freedom of navigation and overflight. The NZDF undertakes all activities in accordance with international law, and for ships in particular the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea," it says.

"The South China Sea is one of the world's major sea lanes and is routinely transited by merchant and naval vessels and aircraft."

Defence Minister Peeni Henare last month said he has "no concern" around New Zealand having ships in the region.

The HMNZS Aotearoa is now enroute to Singapore for the Bersama Gold 21 exercise, which HMNZS Te Kaha will join after a week with the CSG. A New Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion will also join the exercise, which the Defence Force says is "designed to enhance interoperability and strengthen relationships" between militaries. About 270 personnel have been deployed across the two ships.

Bersama Gold 21, held off the coast of Singapore and the Malaysian Peninsula, will see FPDA defence forces "in the conduct of Combined and Joint Operations in a multi-threat environment".

"The exercise will commence with Force Integration Training and conclude with a War-at-Sea exercise," the Defence Force said last month.

Te Kaha's transit comes in the wake of Taiwan's Foreign Minister Joseph Wu warning if China was to launch "an attack", "we will fight to the end". China, which claims Taiwan as its own, has sent about 150 aircraft into the island's Air Defence Identification Zone since Friday, raising questions about Beijing's intentions.

Wu called for "like-minded partners", such as Australia, to partake in "security or intelligence exchanges".

Australia responded on Monday night, expressing concern about China's actions and urging the resolution of differences to be "achieved peacefully through dialogue and without the threat or use of force or coercion".

Wu's comments were followed by an essay on Tuesday by Taiwan's leader Tsai Ing-wen, who said if Taiwan "were to fall, the consequences would be catastrophic for regional peace and the democratic alliance system".

She said Taiwan was "committed to collaborating with our neighbours to prevent armed conflict in the East China and South China Seas as well as in the Taiwan Strait".

The island's leaders will this week meet with former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, who last week spoke in support of Taiwan's bid to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for a Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which China opposes. New Zealand received applications from both China and Taiwan last month to join the agreement.

Concern about a potential war in the region has been mounting all year, with both Australian and American officials saying conflict could not be discounted. Australia, the United States, and the United Kingdom last month unveiled a new security pact - AUKUS - aimed at confronting emerging threats in the Indo-Pacific, with an eye on China.
http://nighthawk.nz/index.php/news/defe ... na-attacks

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