New Zealand Defence Force

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
Tony Williams
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Tony Williams »

NighthawkNZ wrote: The Army is looking at options to replacement of the aging 5.56mm IW Steyr
They've made some interesting decisions about small arms recently.

Like a number of other armies who discovered the range limitations of 5.56mm weapons in Afghanistan, they have introduced a long-range rifle in the old but much more powerful 7.62mm calibre; the Designated Marksman Weapon. It is an LMT design, basically the same as the British L129A1 "Sharpshooter" only with a 20" instead of 16" barrel (sensible) and provision for automatic fire (interesting!).

They are also replacing all of their C9 5.56mm LMGs (Minimi) with a 7.62mm version of the Minimi. This is a first: the US Army has introduced the 7.62mm Minimi alongside the 5.56mm version, but no-one else has switched completely from 5.56mm.

After that, the AUG replacement hardly matters: in fact, they have chosen another LMT carbine in 5.56mm calibre, which makes sense as it means that the handling, controls etc will be the same as for the DMW. An interesting detail is that they are reportedly using the heavy MK262 long-range target ammo used by US special forces. Lead-cored, so no good against armour, but effective against unprotected enemies.

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Wrekin762 »

Some media on NZ's new gat from LMT:

Image


Called "MARS-L". Apparently competed against 8 other rifles.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/ ... -issue-gun

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Little J »

The Steyr was found to be ineffective at sighting targets and firing at ranges greater than 200m.
So to solve this, they are going from a 20 inch barrel to a 16 inch LMT. Blind journalism? :roll:

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Little J wrote: was found to be ineffective at sighting targets[...] at ranges greater than 200m.
In the UK I think it is the sights that are standardised, not that they would be rolling off the line from the manufacturer of the weapon itself?
- OK, if the gun is not accurate beyond 200m, that is pretty bad
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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Wrekin762 »

Little J wrote:
The Steyr was found to be ineffective at sighting targets and firing at ranges greater than 200m.
So to solve this, they are going from a 20 inch barrel to a 16 inch LMT. Blind journalism? :roll:
My understanding is that the limitations in precision at longer ranges were to do with most NZ Steyrs still having integrated 1.5 optics and the condition of the barrels after 28 years, rather than an issue with the rifle's operation.

I read that the whole program started with the option of upgrading all their AUGs with rails and better sights (which is something that deployed forces had in Afghanistan) across the whole of the Army, Navy and Air Force or buying a new, more modular rifle that could be used by Army, Navy, AF and NZSAS and will likely be easier to support in the long term.

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Wrekin762 wrote: most NZ Steyrs still having integrated 1.5 optics and the condition of the barrels after 28 years
Ok, understood, thanks
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by marktigger »

wonder if UK will follow suit and get the Lewis Machine tool weapon?

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Tony Williams »

marktigger wrote:wonder if UK will follow suit and get the Lewis Machine tool weapon?
If they had to buy a new 5.56mm rifle now, they might - since, like NZ, they have bought the LMT 7.62mm rifle as the L129A1 "Sharpshooter" (Designated Marksman Weapon in NZ).

However, they are not planning to replace the SA80 family until 2025+, and are looking for a "step change in capability" when they do.

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by GastonGlocker »

NZ goes Glock 17 to replace SIG P226:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015 ... e-handgun/

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by arfah »

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by GastonGlocker »

A common assessment at first, along with a "top-heavy" feel when empty. Then the benefits of its design become apparent after awhile...outstanding trigger reset, consistent (if a bit mushy) pull and overall light weight with low bore axis and easy maintenance. It may lack soul however :mrgreen:

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

New Zealand defence white paper

http://www.defence.govt.nz/pdfs/defence ... r-2016.pdf

I haven't read it yet, but from little I have heard no surprises

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

Cost blows out and 13 month delay for Frigate up grade,

Seems those pesky Canadians not only want to stuff there own defence force around, but also the kiwis too.

http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/ ... y-Brownlee

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by xav »

arfah wrote:RNZN orders new fleet tanker from Hyundai.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /87282602/
With pics of the new tanker

Hyundai Heavy Industries to Supply Ice Capable Tanker to Royal New Zealand Navy
Image
New Zealand's Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee announced that Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI) of South Korea won a contract to build and deliver a new tanker for the Royal New Zealand Navy. The tanker will be ice-strengthened for Antarctic operations, winterised, and will be the largest vessel ever operated by the Royal New Zealand Navy.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=4210

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

xav wrote:
arfah wrote:RNZN orders new fleet tanker from Hyundai.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /87282602/
With pics of the new tanker

Hyundai Heavy Industries to Supply Ice Capable Tanker to Royal New Zealand Navy
Image
New Zealand's Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee announced that Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI) of South Korea won a contract to build and deliver a new tanker for the Royal New Zealand Navy. The tanker will be ice-strengthened for Antarctic operations, winterised, and will be the largest vessel ever operated by the Royal New Zealand Navy.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=4210
Good to see that NZ has learned fro the Project Protector Program and not getting too hung up on x amount of ships within y budget, just hope they keep it up for the next gen frigate and amphibious shipping.

Pity the Singaporeans haven't gone ahead with the Endurance 160 or the Japanese putting a well dock in Hyuga would be just about perfect for NZ, Dokdo would be nice as well.

https://temasekthunderbolt.wordpress.co ... e-160-lhd/

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Deck 3 plan (in the above) indicates that you could put 3 IFVs, bumper to bumper, onto each fast landing craft
- neither type is specified by name
- but 5 helos, ready on the deck and two more in the hangar plus what can be landed on the beach seems like a good capability
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by marktigger »

arfah wrote:NZ looking to replace its 757's and C130's.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/nz- ... e-aircraft
wonder if we'll flog em some second hand J's and 2 A330's

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

marktigger wrote:
arfah wrote:NZ looking to replace its 757's and C130's.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/nz- ... e-aircraft
wonder if we'll flog em some second hand J's and 2 A330's
No, will be like capabilty or better, I'd say new C130J and Boeing KC-46 minus the AAR kit would be most Likely winner, but there still are some unlikely contenders given the time frame,

A400M ( not likely unless someone gives up production slots)

C17 ( USAF seconds unlikely)

KC-390 ( still a development aircraft)

Kawasaki C-2 ( only two prototypes still in development)

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

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Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by marktigger »

R686 wrote:
marktigger wrote:
arfah wrote:NZ looking to replace its 757's and C130's.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/nz- ... e-aircraft
wonder if we'll flog em some second hand J's and 2 A330's
No, will be like capabilty or better, I'd say new C130J and Boeing KC-46 minus the AAR kit would be most Likely winner, but there still are some unlikely contenders given the time frame,

A400M ( not likely unless someone gives up production slots) GERMANY/SPAIN/TURKEY/FRANCE take your pick

C17 ( USAF seconds unlikely) OUT OF PRODUCTION last airframes sold

KC-390 ( still a development aircraft)

Kawasaki C-2 ( only two prototypes still in development)
A330 in service with Australia so probably high on list
C130J In service with Australia so probably high on list
P8 In Service with Australia so probably high on List

Kawasaki P1 nice but unlikely
Kawasaki C2 nice but unlikely
A400M a Possible given the Kiwi interest in C17 earlier this year
C17 out of production and as far as I remember all sold
Civilian airliner like 767 or 777 in service with Air New Zealand already very possible

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