UK Defence Forum

RichardIC wrote:

Lord Jim wrote:We really could do with utilising the AAR option of at least a few of our A400, if only for the Rotary fleet. Having one in the Falklands to support the Typhoons would be useful as well rather than use a Voyager.

The Falklands is posing a real dilemma now that the C-130 are going. It would seem to make sense to replace one C-130 and one Voyager with two AAR equipped A400s that can perform tanker, maritime patrol, SAR, casevac if a contract variation could be agreed with Airtanker.

I've read very little/nothing about Airtanker operations in the Falklands but I'd imagine having to maintain a Voyager in the open and retain crew and technicians down south is a burden they may wish to give up, depending on how commercially rewarding it is.

The a400m replaced the Hercules in the Falklands a few years ago

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

SW1 wrote:You will want to clear a number of the parachute operations as the French Air Force has before we get to worrying about aar capability.

Do we need to do that, separately?

Isn't the next thing the 'drop' platform: the deliver other than men, e.g. vehicles?

We may use different parachutes to the french I believe

topman wrote:

Ron5 wrote:

topman wrote:I'd disagree, which of the helicopters are ready to aar right?

Latest Marine Merlins. Shown equipped with refueling probes when they entered service.

Like I said, I wonder how many are ready right now.

Oh dear, did Mr RAF forget the mighty wizard ??

SW1 wrote:The a400m replaced the Hercules in the Falklands a few years ago

Did it? That completely passed me by. Thank you.

I think the same logic may still apply regarding two A400s rather than two singletons. At least they could refuel each other.

Less types of spares, possible less maintenance bodies there also?

been a busy day here so far 2 French an one RAF A400's been in and out of the local airfield 4 stream passes over the farm at no more 300 ft also a tiger hanging around to the north might be working up to a local EX and night flying which about this time most years

https://esut.de/en/2021/09/meldungen/29 ... bgenommen/


The European armaments agency OCCAR-EA approved the aircraft standard "New Standard Operating Clearance 2.5" (NSOC 2.5) on September 8th on behalf of the A400M program nations, according to a communication from the Federal Office for Equipment, Information Technology and Use of the Bundeswehr (BAAINBw) .

With the NSCO 2.5, the user nations have access to a large number of improvements for already delivered, but also for completely new capabilities. The Federal Office for Equipment, Information Technology and Use of the Federal Armed Forces names among others

the ability to simultaneously lower parachutists with automatically deployed parachutes,

the ability to set down loads using the pull-out method,

ground-system-independent instrument approaches
,
further optimized self-protection system (level 2b) and

an initial qualification for automatic low-level flight.

The OCCAR-EA also refers to reduced and military operating standards and the integrated calculation of aircraft performance with TOPOCS (Take-Off Performance On Board Computer System).

I wonder how many we are pursuing?

From UKDJ, possible additional A400M purchase later this decade: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-plan ... -aircraft/

Make of it what you will. Would like to see the source myself.

~UNiOnJaCk~ wrote: ↑06 Jan 2022, 20:16 Make of it what you will. Would like to see the source myself.

Found the source that got left out of the article (same source as the 'big RN projects' article) - Ctrl+F "Additional purchase of A400M" to find the entry.

https://committees.parliament.uk/public ... 6/default/

Defiance wrote: ↑06 Jan 2022, 21:30

~UNiOnJaCk~ wrote: ↑06 Jan 2022, 20:16 Make of it what you will. Would like to see the source myself.

Found the source that got left out of the article (same source as the 'big RN projects' article) - Ctrl+F "Additional purchase of A400M" to find the entry.

https://committees.parliament.uk/public ... 6/default/

So an unknown quantity of A400 to be purchased sometime in the future, lets hope it is enough to replace the 14 C130j we are to lose.

bobp wrote: ↑06 Jan 2022, 21:45 So an unknown quantity of A400 to be purchased sometime in the future, lets hope it is enough to replace the 14 C130j we are to lose.

Exactly the sort of detail that makes it an easy cut. Can't get hauled over the coals when nobody knows how many you were going to buy. Personally I expect any order uplift will be to offset A400M availability issues rather than meeting C-130J capacity.

Defiance wrote: ↑06 Jan 2022, 21:52

bobp wrote: ↑06 Jan 2022, 21:45 So an unknown quantity of A400 to be purchased sometime in the future, lets hope it is enough to replace the 14 C130j we are to lose.

Exactly the sort of detail that makes it an easy cut. Can't get hauled over the coals when nobody knows how many you were going to buy. Personally I expect any order uplift will be to offset A400M availability issues rather than meeting C-130J capacity.

Cynically I wonder if this would be an 'increase' to the original order of 25.

I wonder how desperate the Germans and Spanish will get to shift their surplus aircraft by the end of the decade? Until they do, the production run is going to end sooner than I'm sure Airbus would like.

Jensy wrote: ↑07 Jan 2022, 00:55

Defiance wrote: ↑06 Jan 2022, 21:52

bobp wrote: ↑06 Jan 2022, 21:45 So an unknown quantity of A400 to be purchased sometime in the future, lets hope it is enough to replace the 14 C130j we are to lose.

Exactly the sort of detail that makes it an easy cut. Can't get hauled over the coals when nobody knows how many you were going to buy. Personally I expect any order uplift will be to offset A400M availability issues rather than meeting C-130J capacity.

Cynically I wonder if this would be an 'increase' to the original order of 25.

I wonder how desperate the Germans and Spanish will get to shift their surplus aircraft by the end of the decade? Until they do, the production run is going to end sooner than I'm sure Airbus would like.

The Germans don’t have any surplus aircraft they are taking all 53 of them now. Will operate 10 with Hungary in a joint Sqn

Jensy wrote: ↑07 Jan 2022, 00:55 Cynically I wonder if this would be an 'increase' to the original order of 25.

That's the probable outcome if any get purchased. Pick a number, cut it to save money, reverse the cut but frame it as expansion instead, job done

~UNiOnJaCk~ wrote: ↑06 Jan 2022, 20:16 From UKDJ, possible additional A400M purchase later this decade: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-plan ... -aircraft/

Make of it what you will. Would like to see the source myself.

The source pdf is linked to at the top of the article, apologies should maybe make it clearer.

EDIT: Sorry, just noticed you've found it.

Thank you for the pointers to the source all.

Also noticed that Gabriele Molinelli has tweeted some additional snippets from the same document, unrelated to A400M so not for here but interesting pointers nonetheless.

I would like to see at least ten more purchase to form a pool that three front line Squadrons could use. The funding is likely as there will be an increased need to support all these forward deployed assets and it would be uneconomical to use the C-17s all of the time, and the latter have already been worked very hard over the past decade or so. In fact this last reason would also apply to the Atlas fleet, spreading the hours over more airframes, something the F-35 project office and that of every other platform should think about. The RAF's front line units are very fragile with far too little attrition airframes for peacetime let alone during a war.

Bit windy down brize Norton hopefully no one is injured

The Atlas is turning into the perfect partner to the Globemaster. Now we just need to get the SF side underway and utilise the pluming already there to provide AAR to allow SF aviation to also deploy with a smaller signature than using the C-17. Of course the SF might have something that can fit inside the Atlas in future, who knows with their own budget to purchase thing discretely.

If they did ever get the Septics to buy them, an AC-400m could be a useful (but specialised) buy...

The above is all well and good as long as the launch aircraft stays well out of the operational range of an opponent Air Defence assets, including over friendly territory. Seeing a group of A400s heading towards the border on radar means either we are launching a suicidal airborne operation or they are going to launch something nasty. Either way they would be a priority for long range SAMs and AAMs. WE need to start doind all are assumption based on contested airspace moving forwards as that is the likely situation in any future Peer level conflict. So mark enemy airfields and draw a circle around it matching the range of the aircraft based there and do the same with the enemy's around and airborne radars and GBAD site. Outside of that is where it would be safer for a A400 to launch Drones or Cruise Missiles.