UK Defence Forum

Or split a company over two ‘planes and use the rest of the space for kit? Or run 102 (like a C17) and use the 14 leftover spaces for kit.


Looking at the video, I suspect that 116 is limited by space for the seats and static lines, not weight. You could probably fit some kit on the ramp to throw out the back or side doors before or after the paratroopers jump.

abc123 wrote:Why not just adjust the size of a company?

Companies are the size they are for a reason altering them just to suit the capabilities of the A400 would be very much a last resort. Besides a Company would never normally be dropped in isolation, rather it would be dropped as a Company Group, with elements from Support Company and possibly from other Units. Which means you are going to need at least 2 A400s anyway.

whitelancer wrote:

abc123 wrote:Why not just adjust the size of a company?

Companies are the size they are for a reason altering them just to suit the capabilities of the A400 would be very much a last resort. Besides a Company would never normally be dropped in isolation, rather it would be dropped as a Company Group, with elements from Support Company and possibly from other Units. Which means you are going to need at least 2 A400s anyway.

Yes, I know.
On the other hand, two platoon company is less strong than three platoon company, but maybe you could drop another company and it's fine... Considering what chaos if parachute landing of a company ( not to mention other larger units ), I think that having a whole company as close as possible is more important.

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

SW1 wrote:a400m now cleared for 16 ton single load and 23 ton multi load drop

so a generic drop platform works fine
... but have not seen any news on a vehicle cradle (on Herc done for ages)
http://www.airforce.mil.nz/nr/rdonlyres ... d9c3dd4c52
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dNnz9x-OLeo/maxr ... 0_0027.jpg

Up to the individual nations to decide what they want to clear and how they wish to use the capability of aircraft.

Also worth noting the a/c has been cleared for automatic terrain following down to 500ft vmc. Imc next year.

The Poles are developing some very interesting vehicles for their airborne formations, whilst the Germans have some platforms that are designed to fit inside a CH-53/CH-47 for their airmobile formations. These are things we should be looking at for 16 Air Assault once we hopefully decide to actually make it into a combat effective formation, though I am not holding my breath.

abc123 wrote:On the other hand, two platoon company is less strong than three platoon company, but maybe you could drop another company and it's fine... Considering what chaos if parachute landing of a company ( not to mention other larger units ), I think that having a whole company as close as possible is more important.

A two Platoon Company would not be very effective and its unnecessary anyway. I think your concern that if a Company is spread over more than 1 aircraft it will be dropped over a wide area is unfounded. A lot has changed since WW2.

whitelancer wrote:

abc123 wrote:On the other hand, two platoon company is less strong than three platoon company, but maybe you could drop another company and it's fine... Considering what chaos if parachute landing of a company ( not to mention other larger units ), I think that having a whole company as close as possible is more important.

A two Platoon Company would not be very effective and its unnecessary anyway. I think your concern that if a Company is spread over more than 1 aircraft it will be dropped over a wide area is unfounded. A lot has changed since WW2.

Maybe. Don't know.

Lord Jim wrote:The Poles are developing some very interesting vehicles for their airborne formations, whilst the Germans have some platforms that are designed to fit inside a CH-53/CH-47 for their airmobile formations. These are things we should be looking at for 16 Air Assault once we hopefully decide to actually make it into a combat effective formation, though I am not holding my breath.

I was looking over the Supacat LRV last night: https://supacat.com/products/lrv-2/



It is designed for Chinook deployment and looks like a formidable bit of kit for its size and weight

At 4.2 tonnes and only 1.7m wide, you could fit six of them into an A400 with trailers or potentially eight without.

Ouch!

RichardIC wrote:Ouch!

Looks like some serious damage.

Wouldn't want to be on the clean up crew!

Wow, was the pelican flying with its mouth open?

People don’t realise how even small birds create large damage. Design and testing of such things is quite interesting.

Will be repaired.

Is pelican meat tasty?

An expensive surveillance aircraft.

bobp wrote:An expensive surveillance aircraft.

They do the role round the Falklands too.

Just think of headlines RAF securing the seas around the UK as the RN says it’s not our job!

SW1 wrote:

bobp wrote:An expensive surveillance aircraft.

They do the role round the Falklands too.

Just think of headlines RAF securing the seas around the UK as the RN says it’s not our job!

By the time they're back in the pub, it will be Battle of Britain II

Ron5 wrote:By the time they're back in the pub, it will be Battle of Britain II

Meanwhile in a seedy French fishing village wine bar, several scruffy men smelling of garlic and onions are celebrating getting rid off another 20 migrants.

bobp wrote:Meanwhile in a seedy French fishing village wine bar, several scruffy men smelling of garlic and onions are celebrating getting rid off another 20 migrants.

Possibly are but the people who do the illegal trafficking use the money extracted to fund activities like the drug cartels for what would likely be classed as non state terror activities. The links probably head all the way back to North Africa and the Middle East.

Just a joke but I'll be the first to admit the poor taste.

SW1 wrote:The links probably head all the way back to North Africa and the Middle East

Some gangs operate a bit closer to home, smuggling migrants in using lorries etc.

bobp wrote:

SW1 wrote:The links probably head all the way back to North Africa and the Middle East

Some gangs operate a bit closer to home, smuggling migrants in using lorries etc.

Yep they most certainly do and every bit as hostile to the state.

Credit: MOD

These photos may help to answer why the A400M has been deployed in this role. After all, apart from eyeballs and fancy binoculars, it has little in the way of sensor to help detect very small surface craft.

What it does have is size; it can be seen from a long way off. So maybe its primary role is to be a visible deterrent to the people smugglers deciding whether to set off to sea.