Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

[shark bait]

if they think an Airbus or EADS product will fly in US markings they are deluded

Very true

[arfah]

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[Gabriele]

I will give Airbus's export hopes claims more credit if and when they get the damn thing to drop paratroopers without them crashing one against the other in the trail, and when they manage to deliver the promised helicopter-refueling capability.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Is that why the paratrooper experiments (carried out by the French) and their results never made it to the wider publicity?

What's the problem with helos... too much slip stream from those vast propellers? Surely it can maintain the same (low) speed as a Herc, which haven't had any problems.

Interesting to hear if there is more info as the above would represent a significant force de-multiplier for the use of the limited number of UK's SF Chinooks (extended range & refuelling; thinking about part of the force, may be with elements of the SFSG, going in with a paradrop, and all of them coming out in Chinooks... type of scenario)

[arfah]

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[Gabriele]

The Atlas can still drop paras from the rear ramp one after the other, if necessary.

Yes, but that is not quite a replacement for launch from the sides.

The issue with para and with helicopters seem to be loosely connected, in the sense that the A400 leaves the air behind itself "tormented" in a way that disturbs helicopters lining up for a drink and that pushes paratroopers against each other. There is very little open talk of these issues. For the little i hear, the para problem seems to be particularly bad with the british parachute, so much so that the British Army might have to switch to the US T-11 (which must somehow be less affected? I know too little to make complete sense of the voices doing the rounds). Jim probably knows more.

We might or might not hear more when France does the next phase of para trials. They cleared the launch from the rear, and the sides are next.

[arfah]

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[marktigger]

i seam to remember C130J had issues when it was introduced to para dropping. You would think the design brief would have overcome this!

[S M H]

One benefit of having to change parachute to the American T 11 on the A400M is it is cleared for the C17.

[marktigger]

its of course 1 more bit of standardisation

[ArmChairCivvy]

The Atlas can still drop paras from the rear ramp one after the other, if necessary.

I was talking to a retired Major from the Paras, and he was emphasising what a step forward it was when Hercs came into service and the drops ended up less dispersed when they could use both sides of the rear ramp. 130J was not covered in the discussion, are the engines bigger like in an A400M and the slip stream thereby becomes a problem? [ there was a separate mention of the J here, above]

[arfah]

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[ArmChairCivvy]

if they think an Airbus or EADS product will fly in US markings they are deluded

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... 6e2d31f60c

Setting up plant in Alabama (Boeing will stop sueing them...and v.v.)?
- ok, for now it is for a civilian airliner

[arfah]

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[downsizer]

Playing fast and loose with the "Ready for worldwide Ops", when clearly it isn't.

Still well done to 70 Sqn for mastering the art of being route queens once again...!

[shark bait]

I didn't get that "made in America"?

Airbus have just opened a factory in America in an attempt to secure more of the American market, because as we know, Americans love made in America.

Pure speculation from me, but an atlas order from the US would see the project actually return a profit and be a massive deal for Airbus. It wouldn't surprise me if they would offer to assemble the atlas there to give it the made in America tag.

[Lugzy]

I didn't get that "made in America"?

Airbus have just opened a factory in America in an attempt to secure more of the American market, because as we know, Americans love made in America.

Pure speculation from me, but an atlas order from the US would see the project actually return a profit and be a massive deal for Airbus. It wouldn't surprise me if they would offer to assemble the atlas there to give it the made in America tag.

I'd say your right on the money Shark , after reading the article again it does sound like a sales promotion drive using the Stryker evaluation as window dressing tbh , it does say the A400m will be not just be testing loading the Stryker but other heavy military equipment ,

[SKB]

Boeing civilian planes are no longer American made, they are merely assembled at the giant Everett factory in Washington state. Their planes are built overseas worldwide in pieces and arrive in the US prebuilt in kit form.

[shark bait]

Boeing civilian planes are no longer American made, they are merely assembled at the giant Everett factory in Washington state. Their planes are built overseas worldwide in pieces and arrive in the US prebuilt in kit form.

Thats globalization! I think its still fair to call Boeing made in america.

[shark bait]

I'd say your right on the money Shark , after reading the article again it does sound like a sales promotion drive using the Stryker evaluation as window dressing tbh , it does say the A400m will be not just be testing loading the Stryker but other heavy military equipment ,

It did seem a little OTT flying half way around the world to check if something would fit, I cant speak for military sorts, but in the civilian world we use a tape measure

Having the Americans on board would be a massive deal, not just Airbus, but all the countries operating the type would benefit. Defiantly worth the push. Such a sale would be an unprecedented purchase of foreign equipment.

I cant think of any examples of a large foreign order from the Americans in the past couple of decades, any one got any examples?

[ArmChairCivvy]

Pure speculation from me, but an atlas order from the US would see the project actually return a profit and be a massive deal for Airbus.

Would be good... the original client gvmnts had to put in a rescue loan, dressed up as equity, that will only become payable (back) from genuine export orders - not from reselling within the assigned order quotas
- we could get enough back to pay for everything that was pruned: DAS, 3 more units, what else (NAO spread sheets list them all in the RHS column)

[cockneyjock1974]

I cant think of any examples of a large foreign order from the Americans in the past couple of decades, any one got any examples?

The Hawk sale to the USN which was made under license by McDonald Douglas and called the Goshawk.

[Wrekin762]

I cant think of any examples of a large foreign order from the Americans in the past couple of decades, any one got any examples?

Stryker is Canadian. M777 is British.

Both have their major construction carried out outside of the US, before being sent there for final assembly and integration of American-made systems.

[marktigger]

C23 Sherpa UK
C27 Italy
HC144 Spain
C212 Spain
PC12 switzerland
UH72 Eurocopter

[shark bait]

Stryker is Canadian.

Stryker is a good high value example, however it was developed for the Americans by an American company, so still fairly home grown with a chunk of Swiss and Canadian I'm there.

C27 Italy
HC144 Spain

Those are some good examples of them buying something they have nothing to do with.
Of all the example's I don't think any would have the value an atlas order would have which is what makes it unprecedented to me.