Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

[sea_eagle]

The US have never exported the special forces Chinook with the refueling probe. Not even to the UK. There is no Chinook in-flight refueling capability available, even in the case the A400M overcomes the turbulence issues which prevent it from tanking for helicopters. Airbus has admitted recently that the problem might well not be solved.

Thanks Gaby, I thought that the HC2A were ordered with the fitted for but not with the aerial refuelling probe.

Just found this in the local paper, seems the A400M has been here before. Noticeable how quiet it was as a commerical twin prop came by later and was much louder on the same approach.
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/1 ... h_Airport/

[Gabriele]

French SF are getting around it by getting a pair of KC-130's too IIRC.

It is not sure yet. They have 14 old C-130H and the recent uplift to their budget includes a "study" on the opportunity of getting some 4 C-130J, two of which in tanker configuration. The actual decision is expected by the end of this year.

My opinion? It is quite likely they will order them. The document with the details of the force structure under the new budget says in one passage that the air force will have "around 20" C-130s by 2020, so... it might welll mean 18, 14 + 4.
Two armed C-130s for Special Forces support are also planned. Some say they would be the other 2 C-130Js in the purchase, but the official document talks of adding weapons to existing C-130Hs.

[marktigger]

what about Poland? or cezch rep?

New Zealand to though suspect they will follow Australia they might pick up some Ex RAF J's

[R686]

what about Poland? or cezch rep?

New Zealand to though suspect they will follow Australia they might pick up some Ex RAF J's

I cant see NZ picking up RAF J's they had an opportunity to pick up the ex RAAF H's when we retired them, I will bet that RNZAF will order A400M in 18 months whether that direct off Airbus or from a third part I could not say as indications from other sources that RNZAF H's will start to be replaced from 2018 but 2020 will be most likely date.

[marktigger]

I would say the New Zealanders will want newish aircraft compatible with their next door neighbours. There were reports of them evaluating C17. C130J gives them commonality with Australia if they were to pick up ex RAAF H's they would have to put them through a modernisation program. like they did their own. They are already feeling the problems of operating a no standard type with the Seaspirite. Malaysia getting A400 gives them a bit of a lifeline but I'd bet more on C130J.

[R686]

I would say the New Zealanders will want newish aircraft compatible with their next door neighbours. There were reports of them evaluating C17. C130J gives them commonality with Australia if they were to pick up ex RAAF H's they would have to put them through a modernisation program. like they did their own. They are already feeling the problems of operating a no standard type with the Seaspirite. Malaysia getting A400 gives them a bit of a lifeline but I'd bet more on C130J.

while commonality would ease the logistical burden but its no sense getting them(C130J) if it does not perform role, don't forget NZ needs are tactical loads flown strategic distance and Heavy and Outsize Loads, cant move NH-90 in a C130J.

if RNZAF had managed to get the C17 Globemaster than yeah new or refurbished C130J would have been ideal and I think 3 C17 would have been ideal for RNZAF for use as a soft power tool internationally.

I think an ideal lift capability would have been,
3x C17
6x C130J
5x CH-47F
8x NH90 (tactical transport helicopter)
8x NH90 (NATO Frigate Helicopter) to replace sea sprogs in future

but since C17 is not on the table any more a future airlift group if it was up to me,
8x A400M
6x C295/C27J
5x CH-47F
8x NH90 (tactical transport helicopter)
8x NH90 (NATO Frigate Helicopter) to replace sea sprogs in future

[The Armchair Soldier]

The sixth (?) RAF A400 is in the air.

[shark bait]

The sixth (?) RAF A400 is in the air.

Yep I have it down at 6th. The next 3 off the production line will also be RAF giving us the largest fleet. Coming very close to IOC then.

[The Armchair Soldier]

UK to Begin Testing National A400M Capabilities Shortly

The UK Royal Air Force (RAF) is to begin safety testing of a number of country-specific capabilities for its Airbus Defence and Space (DS) A400M Atlas transport aircraft at the end of July, the government disclosed on 2 July.

Several dedicated national capabilities, such as UK parachutes and aerial delivery systems, that need to be cleared from a safety perspective will undergo testing at the end of July and continue through until March 2018, to clear their release to service, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence Philip Dunne said in response to a question in the House of Commons.

Read More: http://www.janes.com/article/52734/uk-t ... es-shortly

[The Armchair Soldier]

The third A400M lands at Brize:

[Gabriele]

The third A400M lands at Brize:

It is, of course, the fourth overall. They say third because the future ZM401 is in Brize since early May, but still wearing an Airbus code as it is being used to integrate the DAS and hasn't been formally accepted by the RAF yet.

[The Armchair Soldier]

The third A400M lands at Brize:

It is, of course, the fourth overall. They say third because the future ZM401 is in Brize since early May, but still wearing an Airbus code as it is being used to integrate the DAS and hasn't been formally accepted by the RAF yet.

Interesting, thanks, I didn't know that.

[shark bait]

Thats a good pic. Seems to me that airbus is finally pushing these out at an acceptable pace now, indeed they where running out of places to put them whist they were grounded.

IOC is not far away now.

[marktigger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ox ... e-33633641

70 Sqn stands up today

[Lugzy]

The RAF as just received its fourth A400m , I think this could be ZM403/MSN20, which was photographed a few months ago in servile sporting its RAF colours .

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/raf-rec ... rth-a400m/

[ArmChairCivvy]

DAS was cut from the order (short sighted cash management, but I guess the MoD wasn't given much choice). Now one of the four A400Ms is used for integrating it afterwards, ie. testing if the retrofit will actually work, and work the same, as those installed as part of the production run.

Here's the poor Parliament, in 2009, trying to find out what the double speak of those accountable actually means:
"22. We sought confirmation that A400M aircraft will have a full Defensive Aids Suite (DAS) when they enter service. The Minister for Defence Equipment and Support confirmed that they would,[45] but added that DAS would only be fitted for "the ones that we are employing in theatre".[46] We pressed further on this matter and asked whether the MoD might be procuring some A400M aircraft without a full DAS on the basis that these aircraft would not be flying into dangerous areas. We were surprised to learn from the Minister that the MoD "need to take that decision nearer the time". He added that:

I have just given you the general principle and it is a very important general principle. In so far as we were clear that some A400Ms would not need to fly into theatre maybe we would not need to fit the defensive aid suites, but we would have to take a view as to whether it would be sensible to have some aircraft, maybe just for training purposes, where we did not need that. It is a decision we have not taken yet.[47]

23. On the issue of whether the A400M aircraft would be fitted with a fuel inertion system and with explosive suppressant foam, the Minister said that, as with DAS, "the same principles apply in all three cases because obviously the three cases are very analogous and the same issue arise".[48]"

[ArmChairCivvy]

Became interested about the third problem at that time (referred to at the end of the excerpt from the Select Committee transcript), and it was: what to do about bridging the gap caused by the A400M delay.

The Herc K life extension proved too expensive (and slow), so hiring from outside was extensively used. But they could only do the leg as far as Bastion. So to get tactical lift relief commercial liner/ parcel courier planes had to be bought outright. And only one type that could be considered was the one that in Queen's Flight already had a designed and fitted DAS.

[Gabriele]

Not at all sure it is actually a british problem related to past penny pinching and u-turns: i think the DAS is still not operational on the A400s, no matter the country.

[ArmChairCivvy]

I did not say that; What I said was that the UK order was despecced (DAS was not the only item, but a major one) and now money (probably more of it) is being spent to put that right.

The NAO major projects reports have the numbers in the comments column of their spreadsheet. The biggest number I remember is £450+m, but did not want to quote it because some delaying of deliveries may have been an element.

[ArmChairCivvy]

BTW, the Israeli tourist plane taking off in Kenya was only able to evade the Stinger, traded off or simply transported by the original Afghan rebels to the local AQ elements, because it had DAS.

Funny that, they have them on charter planes, and we penny pinch on those that are supposed to do opposed paradrops, or in other ways to fly over unfriendly places?

[ArmChairCivvy]

BTW, the Israeli tourist plane taking off in Kenya was only able to evade the Stinger, traded off or simply transported by the original Afghan rebels to the local AQ elements, because it had DAS.

Funny that, they have them on charter planes, and we penny pinch on those that are supposed to do opposed paradrops, or in other ways to fly over unfriendly places?

[marktigger]

but why would A400 need DAS its hardly likely to be transporting anyone important like a government minister?

[ArmChairCivvy]

Airbus Says U.S. to be Biggest Customer for A400M Military Jet

European plane maker Airbus believes the United States will be the biggest customer for its A400M military transport jet, despite a fatal crash involving one of them during a test flight last month.

"By the next decade at the latest, the U.S. armed forces will be the biggest customer for the aircraft," Airbus chief executive Tom Enders told the weekly magazine WirtschaftsWoche in an interview.

Despite its current technical problems, there was no other rival product at the moment, Enders argued.

Boeing's C-17 was larger and Lockheed Martin's C-130 was smaller.

"But a lot of countries don't want either extreme. For the next few years, there will only be one alternative, the A400M, which is also a lot more fuel-efficient and more versatile," he said.

Read More: http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/181857

This could well be true, the only competitor is the Russo-Indian co-development. Historically, they haven't gone well (and not much heard of it lately).

Got to skim-reading the leading-in bit and looks like this bit was left half way:
"In 2009, Airbus acknowledged that the program was expected to lose at least €2.4 billion and cannot break even without sales outside NATO countries. A PricewaterhouseCoopers audit of the program projected that it would run €11.2 billion over budget without corrective measures, which would result in an overrun of €7.6 billion. On 24 July 2009, the seven European nations announced that they would continue with the A400M program, and form a joint procurement agency to renegotiate the contract with EADS. On 9 December 2009, the Financial Times reported that Airbus requested an additional €5 billion subsidy for the project. On 5 January 2010, Airbus repeated that the A400M may be scrapped, costing Airbus €5.7 billion unless €5.3 billion was added by partner governments. On 11 January 2010, Tom Enders, Airbus chief executive, stated that he was prepared to cancel A400M production if European governments did not provide more funding; delays had already increased its budget by 25%.

On 5 November 2010, Belgium, Britain, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Spain and Turkey finalised the contract and agreed to lend Airbus Military €1.5 billion."

Namely, it wasn't enough. The law suits flying across the Atlantic re: state subsidies for passenger liner development made another loan impossible, and therefore even more money went in as quasi-equity. Will only become payable (back) from export sales.

[marktigger]

if they think an Airbus or EADS product will fly in US markings they are deluded

[ArmChairCivvy]

Tom Enders is a CEO; which merger next must be on his mind (if you consider the size of the US market, and its inaccessability to non-domiciled operators)
- Patria was pretty close to getting its AMV to being the USMC's mount as Havoc (though only white-labelled through LM... well known for its expertise in wheeled & amphibious AFVs)