Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

[R686]

ZM406 apparently landed in Sydney Kingsford Smith Airport for a refueling stop to Hobart. any idea why its going to Hobart, wonder why it used Sydney for refueling and not either RAAF Richmond/Williamstown or even Melbourne


http://www.jetphotos.net/photo/8155323

[Mercator]

Antarctica bound maybe? RAAF C-17 flights to there go from Hobart. Quite a few over the last month.

[arfah]

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[marktigger]

have they goten any further in the Air drop trials? Are they any closer to being able to Drop troops out of them or Heavy drop?

[arfah]

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[GibMariner]

24123 – Future Large Aicraft: Costs (Answered)

Mr Douglas Carswell
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, what estimate he has made of the lifetime cost to the public purse of the Royal Air Force Airbus A400M.

Mr Philip Dunne

The forecast costs of the main elements making up the A400M Atlas aircraft programme, including the acquisition, training and in-service support of the aircraft, is £3.6 billion.

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2016/01/2 ... -answered/

24122 – Future Large Aircraft: Costs (Answered)

Mr Douglas Carswell
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, how much the Royal Air Force Airbus A400M cost from development and approval to the end of 2015.

Mr Philip Dunne

Since being approved in 2000, the cost of the UK A400M Atlas acquisition programme to the end of 2015 has been £1,402 million.

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2016/01/2 ... -answered/

[ArmChairCivvy]

any closer to being able to Drop troops out of them

Side doors, yes, but you would want a concentrated drop: in two rows, off the rear ramp?

[arfah]

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[ArmChairCivvy]

I don't know because the info (now that the helo AAR problem has been let out in the open) is suppressed.

A long time ago the Herc made a great difference to the concentration of the paradrops, double rows off the ramp.
- the qualification of the A400M was delegated to the French, for trials. May be there are news that have not crossed the language barrier?

I have not seen any news about a frame (to have been ordered) that would allow bigger loads than what was built in to the systems on the Hercs to be dropped in support.

But, hey! We have the C-17s that have done all of these drops before (plus the Herc J's, that in addition can take tanker kits)... where's the problem?
- we could even cancel the DAS and use the A400Ms the same way as we did the civilian charters?

[arfah]

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[jimthelad]

if it is the same as the herky bird then you could do simultaneous side door and ramp drops giving 3 exit streams. the side doors exit on an alternate basis with 5 second delay, with the ramp exit on a 5 second interval, they enter the airflow above the streams due to drop. The only problem was dropping cannisters which need a longer static cord which could hit the side streams so they were usually dropped last.

[ArmChairCivvy]

RE: C17's.
The RAF only use them as cargo haulers

I know, that's the RAF. They leased theirs on strict leasing conditions.... be v careful, whatever you do, do not ever land them on rough airfields (what they were designed for). Now that the RAF own them, they still behaving the same.
- check the utube for what can be dropped from C17s, even tanks as the Russians do (exc. that the Sheridans are long gone); and how many troops in one go

[arfah]

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[ArmChairCivvy]

including the new T11 chutes.

Something we have?
- I was thinking that the Atlas system should be the primary (and better) replacement for the Hercs dropping vehicles and the like
... but anything will do (as long as it is available where needed)

[arfah]

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[ArmChairCivvy]

The yes or no is not important.

What is important is that the C17s were portrayed as the strat. lift while all the tactical things (regardless of the distances involved) would be done by the Atlases.

There was going to be a good dose of overlap in the *potential* capabilities of
- the mainstay C17 fleet
- the outgoing Herc (J) fleet
- and the (main) Atlas fleet

All I am seeing is gaps:
- dropping vehicles (other than landies or Pinzgauers)
- doing a concentrated troop drop
- supporting far flung SF Ops, icnl. AAR for helos.

If it is that bad, may be we should use the C17s the way they are used by the USAF... to their full capability (we own the lease, so "scrap" the the residual value!)

[arfah]

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[marktigger]

so the a400 can do sim 45, given the way the guys cross under the C1 can't see how rear ramp can be used especially as the wedge used to go off it at the start of the run.

[Gabriele]

RAF tactical use of C-17 is progressively entering the frame. Last year in Joint Warrior they started using them for Rapid and Follow-on air landing and some comments about airdrops have begun to appear.

So, maybe, something is finally due to change.

As for A400, the parachute problem is for sure at the side doors. The last i read about it suggested that the solution might come via a new parachute rather than changes to the aircraft. Maybe the US T11 itself...?

And finally, apparently the Army is now fully responsible for the new airdroppable platform to replace MSP. An attempt to have the MSP adapted for use on C-130J was scrapped, so there is a big capability gap until something appears that can work from A400 (and / or C-17).

[arfah]

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[S M H]

If the U.S. T11 parachute is used for the Atlas we could use it for the C 17 as it cleared on U. S. A.F. aircraft I presume our C 17s have the side door wind deflectors fitted. They may have to fit them to the side doors on the Atlas?

[downsizer]

There is only 1 reason nothing is dropped from uk c17 and it isn't the RAF. We got what the government wanted to pay for.

And the armchair experts who say well we own them now, just chuck some paras out, don't understand how things work in procurement,T&E, support contracts, etc etc. It isn't as simple as it may seem. Equally if it's funded then it's easy to crack on.

[marktigger]

the AF use the C17 as a strategic airlifter like the Americans use the C5 galaxy alongside Antonov's rented on the commercial market. Given the C17 is also the CCAST lifter of choice I'd rather see them kept out of the way and the A400 & Herc used in the tactical airlift role

[Little J]

Currently reading the news section of Air International (February) and saw this:

According to the DGA the eighth A400M was delivered to the AdlA on December 22 and is the first French aircraft outfitted with a static line at both lateral doors so parachutes deploy automatically.

Have Airbus sorted it now or is it just fitted in hope?

[GibMariner]

ZM401 & ZM404 delivered to 70 Sqn