UK Defence Forum

saw the escorting merlin from work but the seakings were to low

A nice video from Forces TV on the flypast:

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Sea King ASaC7 from HMS Ocean at Gibraltar today:

there was a couple in hangers at yeovilton at weekend probably being preped for the museum there was a HAS 6 and an HC4

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Am I right to assume that some will stay, until Crows Nest will be operational
... or is there a capbility holiday there, despite the fact that the fleet being retired is an ample source of spares?

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Am I right to assume that some will stay, until Crows Nest will be operational
... or is there a capbility holiday there, despite the fact that the fleet being retired is an ample source of spares?

I believe the Sea King ASaC7 will be retained until 2018 and Crowsnest IOC was 2019 IIRC.

Edit, just found this: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... s-revealed

Air Vice-Marshal Julian Young, Director Helicopters at the MOD’s Defence Equipment and Support organisation, said:

Crowsnest will form an integral part of future carrier operations and act as the Royal Navy’s eyes and ears, providing protection through early warning and surveillance.

We have accelerated our programme delivery strategy in order to sustain the capability seamlessly through our Merlin Mk2 helicopters as the Sea King Mk7 fleet retires from service in 2018, and we are confident that the programme will be delivered as planned.

With only 32 Merlin HM2 that's going to prove quite an achievement for that small number of heliocpters to provide both ASW and AEW for the carriers and T23s. Is there any chanvce the 8 Merlin HM1s in storage will be comverted????

With only 32 Merlin HM2 that's going to prove quite an achievement for that small number of heliocpters to provide both ASW and AEW for the carriers and T23s. Is there any chanvce the 8 Merlin HM1s in storage will be comverted????

GibMariner wrote:have accelerated our programme delivery strategy in order to sustain the capability seamlessly through our Merlin Mk2 helicopters as the Sea King Mk7 fleet retires from service in 2018

That's how I had read it from other sources (they were not quite as definitive on the "gap"... or no gap).

32 Merlins... where is the problem?
- 1.7 carriers (availability) x 9 each = 15.3
- 8 x T23 as ASW assets = 8
=> sigma 23.3

Ooops ... 72% availabilty is something that a deployed force can, at best, achieve. All training and such shaved off.
- a further thought: if we were ever to sail a fully formed task force, the CVFs would be full of F35s and Chinooks (add in a few Apaches, and of course the AEW Merlins)
- so assume full utilisation of the AEW kits =10
- bump some of the ASW Merlins off to other than CVF/T26 platforms

... and we are (would be) indeed short of a few

There are 30 Merlin HM2, of which only 25 are operational at any one time. 14 of those are earmarked for the carriers (supposedly 9 ASW and 5 AEW), leaving 11 available for frigates and other duties, with the remaining 5 in maintenance. There doesn't seem to be any progress on upgrading the 8 remaining Merlin HM1 and bringing them back into service.

This article is a couple of years old, but I don't think anything has changed: http://aviationweek.com/farnborough-201 ... ns-service

Where would we be without the few bought from Denmark... I think their reason for selling was that they wanted something smaller for their ships (as part of a change from operating from a landbase to more flexible deployment options).

Some funny business going on with Crowsnest? Note the word *forced* in the above linked article from 2014:
"The company had originally hoped to use Northrop Grumman’s APG-81 radar from the F-35 but was forced to select different radar instead, believed to be an Israeli Elta-made system."

Between now and then a winner was announced... only to be asked to rebid their solution! OK, that might be for the price only, and being a roll on/off system (well, more like bolt-on) shoud not affect the availability of airframes much.

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Where would we be without the few bought from Denmark...

Weren't those the HC3A variants bought for the RAF and now transferred to the RN Commando Helicopter Force?

Where would we be now if the RN had got the extra 20+ Merlin HM1 that were expected in the 90s? Believe there were meant to be 60+.

Speaking of Merlins, just saw an HC3 head off over the sea from RAF Gib.

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Sea King ZA298 has landed at the Fleet Air Arm Museum

For the opening day 4th August 2016, a number of pilots and crew members who have served with ZA298 from the Falklands Conflict in 1982 to the more recent Afghanistan war, were in attendance. Watch Dave Morris Aircraft Curator at Fleet Air Arm Museum and Commodore Simon Thornewill DSC Pilot ZA298 Falklands (attacked by Argentine Sky Hawk- hole through the rotor blades), share some memories of this special helicopter.

dmereifield wrote:http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-la ... wall-skies

I would not be surprised if at the end of the training period they were to be repainted and follow the trainees.

Namely, the Germans aim to replace their SAR Seakings and ASW Lynxes (both) with an NH90 derivative, but the Lynx fleet first (even though out of their 21 Seakings only 5 at any one time are flyable, so two more could be a useful stop-gap):

"The retirement deadline for the Sea Lynx is “2025 sharp” says Capt Matthias Potthoff, commander of naval air forces, “so we have to have a [platform] available in 2023 in order to begin training.”

Berlin’s acquisition process is currently running to schedule, he says, but it cannot afford any slippages, he adds.

“We have initiated the analysis phase and we are in the process to start the formal programme. We will make a decision next year,” he says.

Potthoff was speaking at an event in Donauwörth to mark the first flight of the NH Industries NH90 Sea Lion which will replace the German navy’s Sea King fleet for search and rescue and transport missions.

It is the service’s first new helicopter since the delivery of the Sea Lynx in the early 1980s"

ArmChairCivvy wrote:It is the service’s first new helicopter since the delivery of the Sea Lynx in the early 1980s"

That is absolutely gobsmacking. It's a testament to the Westland Seakings and Lynxe's that they've last 35 years in service in harsh conditions.

Timmymagic wrote: that they've last 35 years in service in harsh conditions

The side question is "when did they stop flying them"? The Inspection Report into the helo availability (bad, and worst in the naval air arm) lead to a revolutionary dictate: you cannot pass an investment proposal w/o provisioning for spare parts... which is exactly what has been done in the past. So the services were left to cut either the number of a/c, staff... or not buy spare parts (and you can guess what they did, when this "peace dividend" landed on the desk).

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... ver-europe

(john kilcline) 19th September 2018

On Wednesday 19th September 2018, two Sea King Mk7 helicopters, flew around Devon & Cornwall, in a last, farewell flight, after nearly 50 years service.

(Cornishpastyman) 19th September 2018

One of the last chances to see the aviators of 849 Squadron at RNAS Culdrose fly the Mark 7 Sea Kings, retiring after almost 50 years of military service.

They were heavily used by the Royal Navy and RAF in active warfare during the Falklands, Bosnian and Northern Ireland conflicts, as well as both Gulf wars and in Afghanistan.

Back at home they have also played a major role in air sea rescue until their retirement in April 2016, marked by this flypast a few months before the handover to the Bristow Group