Belgian Armed Forces

[Defiance]

Thanks for the info. I believe the final decision will be announced around June/July, right? does anyone know why the UK/BAE are leading the Typhoon proposal? Would it not have made more sense for Germany to have led it?

Yeah mid-year is the expected announcement date according to the press.

To your latter point, while anybody (i guess) could knock out a full fat swing role Typhoon, the RAF's got the most amount of experience using Typhoon in the swing role than anyone else in the consortium (+ BAE has more experience supporting/developing the aircraft for that role). Belgium wants their fighter to be a mud-mover just as much as a fighter after all.

I suspect the relevant political angles regarding GER/BEL relationships are being followed up however.

[dmereifield]

Thanks for the info. A couple of other quick questions:

1] Is the timing of the announced retirement of the RAF Tranche 1 twin seaters coincidental - or might some of these be offered (dirt cheap) to sweeten the deal?

2] Is it a certainty that the ariframes, if selected, would be built in the UK because the MoD/BAE are leading the bid? I presume an order of ca. 30 frames is insufficient and uneconomical for setting up an assembly line in Belgium. However, if Germany is planning on extending it's Typhoon/Eurofighter production run to replace their Tornados (as rumour would have it), then might Germany try obtain assembly in Germany - they could argue economies of scale and perhaps eve offer to increase the Belgian content of both the German and Belgian airframes to be built.

thanks

[RetroSicotte]

Extremely unlikely to be Tranche 1, they aren't capable of Belgium's needs.

Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if they went completely against all form of lawful competition and bought Rafale just because of politics. Really shouldn't, Dassault (and many French companies) need to learn they have to abide by law. Canada at least saw by it.

Personally, I expect F-35 to win this, although there would be a dramatic irony in Brussels not selecting the Eurofighter.

[dmereifield]

Indeed, highly ironic. But this is unlikely to happen if the Germans don't go for it?

Would the Tranche 1 twin seaters not be useful at least for training?

I too still suspect that the Rafale could come out on top. Given previous form and the fact that Macron is seemingly good at pushing/promoting/supporting sales of French military equipment. I'm sure they can offer some very tempting sweeteners, and push the line that it is still a European solution....

[Defiance]

Thanks for the info. A couple of other quick questions:

1] Is the timing of the announced retirement of the RAF Tranche 1 twin seaters coincidental - or might some of these be offered (dirt cheap) to sweeten the deal?

Nobody wants those. Nobody. Best thing that can happen to them is strip them into bits.

2] Is it a certainty that the ariframes, if selected, would be built in the UK because the MoD/BAE are leading the bid? I presume an order of ca. 30 frames is insufficient and uneconomical for setting up an assembly line in Belgium.

<snip>

UK build or assembly in country. We're not doing the work putting the bid together and Germany get the work! If they go for Rafale I will be staggered, there'll also be lots of red faces too.

[RetroSicotte]

A Rafale selection would be proximity politics, nothing else. They've disrespected lawful acquirement and due process after all. Wouldn't be a good look to sellers for Belgium to ignore their own procurement guidelines.

[abc123]

I forgot, how many aircrafts are they buying?

[Defiance]

I forgot, how many aircrafts are they buying?

34 all in i think.

[dmereifield]

Apparently the French bid is still not part of the official competition and Belgium is not commenting on whether or not they will respond to it....

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... -f_35.html

[abc123]

I forgot, how many aircrafts are they buying?

34 all in i think.

Thanks.
Ceterum censeo, they will buy F-35.

[dmereifield]

I forgot, how many aircrafts are they buying?

34 all in i think.

Thanks.
Ceterum censeo, they will buy F-35.

Why do you think that? It's not very "European"

[abc123]

I forgot, how many aircrafts are they buying?

34 all in i think.

Thanks.
Ceterum censeo, they will buy F-35.

Why do you think that? It's not very "European"

Neither was F-16. Back then, the French also offered their F-1 as Eurofighter. And the fact is, US are still the cornerstone of European security. On the other hand, really, F-35 is the only thing that makes long-term sense. EF-not so. A nice fighter to have today, but not in 20 years from now- and that's the bottom point.

[Lord Jim]

I suppose it depends whether they want to but something a bit cheaper now that will still be useful in 20 years, like the F-16 is/was and then buy the next generation Eurofighter when it appears, having obtained work share maybe.

[abc123]

I suppose it depends whether they want to but something a bit cheaper now that will still be useful in 20 years, like the F-16 is/was and then buy the next generation Eurofighter when it appears, having obtained work share maybe.

IMHO, the difference in cost is too small to justify that.

[RetroSicotte]

Main reason to suspect F-35 is its link with US nuclear weapons. Belgium shares them after all.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Main reason to suspect F-35 is its link with US nuclear weapons. Belgium shares them after all.

Indeed. And there is only a handful of NATO members with such tasking; Belgium has been getting away with minuscule other forces (in return).
- is the fact that they are brushing up on that front a sign that the nuclear-tasked sqdrns may be taken over by someone else?

The thing is, if you have US nukes to drop, they - regardless of being under "dual key" - will have to have been (a priori) integrated by the US... guess onto what: a US a/c. I feel some F-35s marching out (without redoing the NATO division of labour; and that would be a hot potato, to take out from the desk drawer, where it has been slumbering, undisturbed, for decades).

[Lord Jim]

Spotlight on RAF Lakenheath.

[Defiance]

F-35 is the platform to beat.

[Lord Jim]

Belgium will choose whatever the Dutch do as their armed forces are going to combine on land and in the air like their navies basically have.

[ArmChairCivvy]

their armed forces are going to combine on land and in the air like their navies basically have.

For the navies, that is a fact.

For the mechanised forces the Dutch integration is with Germany.
- Belgian equipment commonality would hint here towards France?

For air (which is the big question mark), integration has been the tightest - so far - with the French (pilot training on jets etc.)

[inch]

Think its going to be f35 all the way tbh

[dmereifield]

Quelle surprise.....

"PARIS — Belgium has shown interest in the Rafale fighter jet for maritime use, said Jean-Jacques Bridey, chairman of the French Defence Committee of the lower house National Assembly.
“The Belgians are interested in the Rafale,” he told The Defense Journalists Association. “Why? If they buy the Rafale, it will be the naval Rafale.”
Belgium is interested in the aircraft’s ability to land on the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle, which would boost Belgium’s deployment capacity, Bridey said. “This is a seaborne airbase, after all,” he added."

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/ ... Socialflow

[inch]

ok but if they picked an f35b the could also cross deck with the Italians Spanish usa british so im not discounting the article just pointing that out also

[dmereifield]

Well they need to find some kind of excuse, I mean reason, to go for it.....

[Dahedd]

Wishful thinking from French politicians & Dassault there ?
Have Belgium ever had a fixed wing naval aircraft? Pre ww2 ?