Belgian Armed Forces

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Smokey wrote:part of NATO's Partneship for peace programme for quite some time and have served alongside NATO troops in Kosovo
Well, we almost got a WW3 when at first
" Defense Minister Pavel Grachev of Russia brought NATO ministers assurances today from President Boris N. Yeltsin that Moscow would join the alliance's Partnership for Peace, the program intended to forge closer ties between NATO and its former Warsaw Pact enemies. "
and then
Russian peacekeepers joined all the others.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Smokey
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by Smokey »

There were Russians living on Pristina Airport across the road from the RAF.

The relationship was a bit err..?

Let's just say it was complicated.

Holding the RAF Det Cmdr at gunpoint until he agreed the Pumas stopped buzzing their tented camp.

MikeKiloPapa
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by MikeKiloPapa »

Aethulwulf wrote:
(Unofficially) The Gripen rarely competes in the same competitions as the F35, as they are at the opposite ends of the cost/capability curve. Saab normally takes the view that any country seriously interested in the F35 is unlikely to choose the Gripen and doesn't waste money in such contests.
Not sure i agree ......In both Norway and Denmark it went up against the F-35 directly and was also offered to Canada (before they cancelled their program) ....Saab only withdrew from those competitions when it became clear that the Gripen would have trouble meeting key requirements and really wasn't competitive.

In Switzerland it competed against the Rafale, Super Hornet and Typhoon(which can hardly be classified as low tier fighters) and WON....likely because of low cost. Same story in Brazil.

It was even peddled to India in the infamous MRCA debacle, again competing(unsuccessfully) against top of the line fighters.

So Saabs strategy of focusing their efforts on second tier markets is a recent development and probably a result of their experiences and lack of success in the aformentioned fighter programs.

But credit were credit is due, their new strategy seems to be paying off quite nicely.

aprichelieu
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by aprichelieu »

abc123 wrote:
Defiance wrote:http://www.defensenews.com/articles/swe ... ter-battle

Saab has pulled out of the Belgian fighter competition citing that the operational support Belgium wanted would be impossible under current Swedish foreign policy.

What that means exactly?
It means that if Belgium wants to use Gripen in a conflict, Sweden must join the conflict and support Belgium
with tanker and reconnaissance aircraft.

aprichelieu
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by aprichelieu »

Smokey wrote:Sweden isn't really neutral.

They've been part of NATO's Partneship for peace programme for quite some time and have served alongside NATO troops in Kosovo and Afghanistan.

In particular, Sweden was part of the United Kingdom's multi national division in NE Kosovo along with Finland, Norway and the Czech Republic.
Sweden is not neutral, and have never claimed to be neutral.
Sweden has a policy of not beeing in any alliance, with the intention of beeing neutral in a conflict.
It will participate in missions when asked by the UN.
Switzerland IS neutral as a result of the Vienna Congress after the Napoleonic War.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

aprichelieu wrote:It will participate in missions when asked by the UN.
or when chooses to do so, as a member of JEF
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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xav
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

In the latter vid, above, nice to see all those Piranha versions. Never seen even a mention of the air defence one before.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

LordJim
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by LordJim »

I wish we actually has a proper Military Parade on Armed Forces day. Maybe we haven't got enough kit that runs to actually stage one?

dmereifield
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by dmereifield »

#ACCaP program: #France's proposal rejected by the Belgian MoD #Belgium https://t.co/xJj7duiYRY

So it's Typhoon or F35 then....

Dahedd
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by Dahedd »

dmereifield wrote:#ACCaP program: #France's proposal rejected by the Belgian MoD #Belgium https://t.co/xJj7duiYRY

So it's Typhoon or F35 then....
Fingers crossed. That's a win win either way for UK jobs.

dmereifield
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by dmereifield »

^^^not quite yet, so it seems....Rafale still in the mix, for now at least....

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... ition.html

Defiance
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by Defiance »

There's no way they're picking Rafale, it'd make a mockery of the entire process if you can submit a letter with no real content at this stage (they are very time pressured) and still be selected. . .

dmereifield
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by dmereifield »

Hope you're right! BAE workers really need this, given that the announced job losses are even greater than feared, now at nearly 2000!

Defiance
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by Defiance »

You can't keep a production line going at a certain speed if you've not got the demand to justify it. It's a sad reality, but a reality nonetheless.

dmereifield
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by dmereifield »


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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

I think it is fairly simple (except that in Belgian politics nothing is simple or straightforward) as the sqdrns we are talking about have a NATO tasking with US nuclear bombs (which themselves are being modernised and do not require any mods to the F-35).
- this speaks against the Eurofighter; however it is all change with Germany's stated intention to replace the Tornados with ... more Eurofighters! (the same mods, but now paid for over a combined fleet of around 100 a/c?

RE: (from the above linked article)
"

However, Boeing withdrew from the contest in April, saying that it could not fairly compete in a matchup skewed toward the F-35.

Then in July, the Swedish government crushed Saab’s chances, with Sweden its decision to abstain from the competition due to the fact that the government could not meet Belgium’s operational support requirements."

Boeing's statement looked true at the time (Belgian navy having a high degree of integration with the Dutch one, and a similar intention, since, announced for the army with France), so also the airforce sharing facilities... with the Dutch (?) despite relying on France for their pilot training pipeline

Sweden? The operational support has been quoted in various ways (and what it includes has not been quoted at all, officially), but how could a neutral country operationally support squadrons that are in readiness to be loaded with nukes (of an alliance, not Belgian "sovereign" nukes)?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

dmereifield
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by dmereifield »

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... pment.html

Eurofighter consortium not throwing in the towel just yet, a Eurofighter Typhoon Belgian Aerospace Industry day was held last week in Brussels.

The proposals include:

"-- The creation of opportunities for Belgian industry to have a voice in the future development of Typhoon

-- The provision for Belgium to access valuable Mission Data and Electronic Warfare data, working with the UK

-- The opportunity for Belgium to participate in the support structure for the aircraft

-- The opportunity to ensure Belgium is "well positioned" for future European aircraft programmes"

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xav
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by xav »

Belgian Government Green Lights Procurement of New Generation MCM Vessels
Image
The Belgian government (Council of Ministers, following a proposal from Defense Minister Vandeput) agreed today to launch a public procurement procedure for the replacement and initial support of the Belgian Navy (Marinecomponent/Composante) and the Royal Netherlands Navy (Koninklijke Marine) fleets of mine countermeasure vessels (MCMV).

As far as the Belgian Navy is concerned, six MCMV with related equipment (MCM Toolboxes, USVs, UUVs...), support equipment and initial support will be procured to replace the six existing Tripartite-class MCMV. Six similar, new generation vessels, will also be procured for the Royal Netherlands Navy (to replace its six remaining Tripartite-class MCMV as well). According to a Belgian government press release, other European partners can join this project as a result of this public contract. The vessels and "MCM toolboxes" are expected to be delivered between 2021 and 2030.
https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... ssels.html

Frenchie
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by Frenchie »

Dassault offers 13 cooperation agreements with Belgian manufacturers as part of the proposed Franco-Belgian strategic partnership on the sale of the Rafales .

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... arget.html

dmereifield
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by dmereifield »

I thought the Rafale was out of the running?

Little J
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by Little J »

I think that was just Frances attempts to get a deal without a competition.

Defiance
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by Defiance »

dmereifield wrote:I thought the Rafale was out of the running?
They've stated they're not required to pick either Typhoon/F-35 and that the likes of Rafale and Gripen are still on the table. However the RFGP would've asked lots of questions, if Dassault hasn't supplied them then it's an uphill battle for them.

dmereifield
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by dmereifield »

Thanks for the info. I believe the final decision will be announced around June/July, right? does anyone know why the UK/BAE are leading the Typhoon proposal? Would it not have made more sense for Germany to have led it?

abc123
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Re: Belgian Armed Forces

Post by abc123 »

dmereifield wrote:Thanks for the info. I believe the final decision will be announced around June/July, right? does anyone know why the UK/BAE are leading the Typhoon proposal? Would it not have made more sense for Germany to have led it?
Maybe because RAF has the most multi-purpose Typhoons, and Belgium want's such planes, not pure fighters, like LW has.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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