Brazil

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
inch
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Re: Brazil

Post by inch »

maybe because brazil is never going to operate harriers but only helo and the skyhawks they have still wouldn't operate off garibaldi ,its cheaper as you say and it was for sale now ,so what the point waiting and getting garibaldi

Jake1992
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Re: Brazil

Post by Jake1992 »

Jfoulke sone of your facts on ocean are very wrong such as that it's never been through a refit so it's systems are 26 years old, ocean went through a 2 year £65m refit and update in 2012 re-entering service in 2014/15, so it's systems are very update.
Another miss quote is its range which stands at 8000nm no the less than 7000 you've said.

You've also miss understood what ocean role in the RN was, it was never a support ship to the invincible class, it was and LPH and operated as the helo platform in an ARG much like the wasp class do in the USN.

The main reason Brazil chose ocean was timing, ocean became avalible at just the right time for them. Plus it was a complete steel for them as the £85m price tag also includes the upgrade and refit to theyre Equiment plus 4 x LCVP mk10s ( in affect they are only paying around £57m for ocean her self )

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SKB
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Re: Brazil

Post by SKB »

Ocean's oldest parts are from the keel laying in 1994 - 24 years ago.
She was launched in 1995 - 23 years ago.
First commissioned in 1998 - 20 years ago.

Ocean was built specifically as a helicopter carrier, with ability to transport RM vehicles and landing craft. Ocean was designed to be a cheap commerically built vessel, based on the Invincible hull design, and was only meant to last up until the end of the lifespan of the three Invincible class carriers, which were already up to 15-20 years old when Ocean was ordered.

When Ocean was commissioned, helicopters could be freed from the three Invincible class carriers and flown from Ocean. This gave the Invincible's more room to carry more Harriers - with additional Harriers from the RAF if required - which gave the Invincible's the additional role of mini strike carriers, as well as their original North Atlantic NATO ASW role.

Dahedd
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Re: Brazil

Post by Dahedd »

Out of curiosity what will the Brazilians be flying off Ocean? Do their Cougars have a folding tail & rotors to allow them to be stored below ?

serge750
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Re: Brazil

Post by serge750 »

I think Ocean was a steel & may only be an interim ship until they can sort out what their future plans will be. if they want a fixed wing carrier again the options are limited unless they go for a new build, or maybe buy the indian STOBAR carrier if india decides to buld more CATOBAR when they start building the 65k tonne? IAC 2 or a slim possibilility of purchasing (but would be so expensive) CdeG in the 2030's...or maybe they got to much crap with the former Foch ?

but just for their helicopter operations ocean will keep their skills relavant along with increased assault/LPH operations & they can always operate ASW hellicopters

inch
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Re: Brazil

Post by inch »

Or a qe class serge750 sure we wouldnt mind help them build one lol :-)

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Halidon
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Re: Brazil

Post by Halidon »

To my knowledge, Phalanx is not being removed due to US objections. The Brazilian Navy doesn't use the system on any existing class, preferring older but more economical 40mm Bofors-based mounts which reflect the lower-threat environment they operate in, so they'd need to stand up a supply chain for Phalanx in addition to the investments they're making to support the ship.

I'd also point out that RN has an interest in retaining those 3 mounts for future needs, reflected in this statement by Guto Bebb, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence:
“The Phalanx Close-In Weapon System and light gun mounts, (which I have taken to refer to mini gun and general purpose machine gun mountings) on board HMS OCEAN will remain in the Ministry of Defence inventory to be allocated to Royal Navy ships as determined by operational requirements.”

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SKB
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Re: Brazil

Post by SKB »


(Marinha do Brasil) 8th July 2018


(Warship TV) 5th July 2018
The Brazilian Flag flies over HMS Ocean! Now named 'Atlantico' and proudly displaying her new ship's name and crests, Brazilian Navy Landing Platform Helicopter Warship PHM Atlantico A140, the former HMS Ocean, is seen in the final stages of preparing to leave for Brazil at Devonport Naval Base on 3rd July 2018.

(Warship TV) 16th July 2018
PHM Atlantico A140, a Landing Platform Helicopter Carrier of the Brazilian Navy and the former HMS Ocean, leaves Devonport Naval Base on her first sea trial with the Brazilian Navy. 16th July 2018

(Warship TV) 20th July 2018
PHM Atlantico A140, the former HMS Ocean, is seen undergoing Sea Trials with the Brazilian Navy in Plymouth Sound on 20th July 2018.

(Warship TV) 20th July 2018
PHM Atlantico A140 (Ex HMS Ocean) is seen entering Devonport Naval Base at Jennycliff Bay following sea trials with the Brazilian Navy shortly before her eventual departure for Brazil.

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SKB
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Re: Brazil

Post by SKB »


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SKB
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Re: Brazil

Post by SKB »

Image
Atlântico (A140) arrives at her new home in Rio. In the background is the São Paulo (A12) - the former French carrier, Foch.

abc123
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Re: Brazil

Post by abc123 »

First of four submarines of Riachuelo-class ( Scorpene-BR ) is in the water:

Image

https://twitter.com/marmilbr
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Brazil

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Before you can defend the country, you need to win it back:
https://news.sky.com/story/fear-and-fig ... a-11611017

The int'l press has been quite one-sided about the political change in Brazil: ooh-no, another Trump. And 130 mln brazileiros can now legally buy guns (when it has been that only the 'baddies' had them) - how terrible is that! Cfr.

1. The U.S. has 88.8 guns for every 100 residents.
2. Yemen has 54.8 guns per 100 residents.
3. Switzerland has 45.7 guns per 100 residents.
- Until 2007, militia members (which included nearly all Swiss men) were required to keep a box of sealed, government-issued ammunition, along with their service rifles, in their homes. (Arnd Wiegmann/Reuters)
4. Finland is 45.3 for every 100 people.
- Gun ownership in Finland is among the highest in the world, although crime rates remain among the world's lowest.

5. Serbia has 37.8 guns per 100 residents.
6. Cyprus has 36.4 guns for every 100 people.
7. 35 guns for every 100 Saudis.
8. Iraq has approximately 34.2 firearms for every 100 people...
- But a total gun count is all but impossible after years of war following the 2003 invasion and 2011 pullout of U.S. forces. The Iraqi insurgency has continued as fighters from the Syrian civil war, as well as ISIS militants, have spilled into the country.
9. Uruguay has 31.8 guns per 100 people.
10th and 11th place: Sweden and Norway have 31.6 and 31.3 firearms per 100 residents respectively.

Take away the ones that have had strife/ civil war and the pattern that emerges is pretty much the reverse for violent crime frequency.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Caribbean
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Re: Brazil

Post by Caribbean »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:1. The U.S. has 88.8 guns for every 100 residents.
But apparently only one third of the population own guns, which means that some people must have rather a lot :crazy:
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Brazil

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Caribbean wrote:88.8 guns for every 100
... men, women and children included
- if you start doing cumulative sums from babies up in this graph https://www.statista.com/statistics/241 ... x-and-age/ it would seem that the 11.2% without :) guns are the sixteen-year olds and under
- so that @ sixteen, driving license @17 and legal drinking @21... risks have been clearly ranked :D
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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xav
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Re: Brazil

Post by xav »

I attended the launch of "Riachuelo", Brazil's first Scorpene-class attack submarine, back in December

chinook88
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Re: Brazil

Post by chinook88 »

Consórcio Águas Azuis é escolhido como fornecedor preferencial para construir as quatro corvetas da Classe Tamandaré

https://www.naval.com.br/blog/2019/03/2 ... tamandare/

abc123
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Re: Brazil

Post by abc123 »

xav wrote:I attended the launch of "Riachuelo", Brazil's first Scorpene-class attack submarine, back in December
Not with AIP?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

abc123
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Re: Brazil

Post by abc123 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Before you can defend the country, you need to win it back:
https://news.sky.com/story/fear-and-fig ... a-11611017
What Brazil needs is taking away weapons from all, not giving more weapons to those who had none so far.
So, military entering favellas, shooting on the spot anyone who raises a weapon against them as any other terrorist ( because they are not more than terrorists ), searching all the houses, taking away all weapons found, razing with bulldozers those houses where they find weapons and locking up ( for a long time ) all the inhabitants of house where they find the weapons.
But, at the end of day, these are only firefighting measures, as you said, just to win it back.
The real problems are development and destroying the conditions that have led to forming of favellas, and slowly turn them into normal neighbourhood.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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xav
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Re: Brazil

Post by xav »

Germany’s MEKO A100 Won the Brazilian Navy Tamandaré Corvette Competition
Image
The Águas Azuis Consortium, formed by thyssenkrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), Embraer Defense & Security and Atech, was selected by the Brazilian Navy for the construction of four surface combatants as part of the Tamandaré Corvettes Class Program as preferred bidder. The result was announced on March 28.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... mpetition/

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Brazil

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Interesting that the Bofors is a Mk4 (not cheap, and the navy has lots of the older ones)
- wonder how it will do in the competition for the French MN supply ships (self-protection weapon)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Brazil

Post by Lord Jim »

The Bofors is not the cheapest option but its range and ammunition options make it one of the most effective and do provide a lot of "Bang for your buck", so to speak. The only comparable western systems are those based on the Swiss 35mm and these are actually bigger and heavier than the latest BAe/Bofors offering.

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xav
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Re: Brazil

Post by xav »

Brazilian Navy’s Riachuelo submarine starts sea trials
Image
Launched on December 14 2018, the Riachuelo attack submarine is now in the final preparation phase before heading to the Atlantic waters. The new Brazilian submarine will first carry out initial tests at dock before its departure, when the propulsion, navigation, and communication systems will be tested.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ea-trials/

abc123
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Re: Brazil

Post by abc123 »

Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

Lord Jim
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Re: Brazil

Post by Lord Jim »

Maybe someone will buy it to turn into a floating casino. :D

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Brazil

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote:Maybe someone will buy it to turn into a floating casino. :D
So the Chinese (PLAN) presence to observe deck operations was actually a cover for Macau casino owners :lol:
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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