Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

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Should the UK now withdraw from the Eurovision Song Contest ?!

:wave: Yes!
28
62%
:evil: No!
17
38%
 
Total votes: 45

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Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

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Introduction
United Kingdom withdrawal from the European Union, often shortened to Brexit (short for British exit) is a political aim of some political parties, advocacy groups, and individuals in the United Kingdom for the country to leave the European Union.


History
The United Kingdom (UK) joined the European Economic Community (EEC), commonly referred to as the Common Market in the UK, on 1 January 1973. This was done under the Conservative government of Edward Heath. The opposition Labour Party, led by Harold Wilson, contested the October 1974 general election with a commitment to renegotiate Britain's terms of membership of the EEC and then hold a referendum on whether to remain in the EEC on the new terms.


1975 Referendum
In 1975 the United Kingdom held a referendum in which the electorate was asked whether the UK should remain in the EEC. All of the major political parties and mainstream press supported continuing membership of the EEC. However, there were significant splits within the ruling Labour party, the membership of which had voted 2:1 in favour of withdrawal at a one-day party conference on 26 April 1975. Since the cabinet was split between strongly pro-Europeans and strongly anti-Europeans, Harold Wilson suspended the constitutional convention of Cabinet collective responsibility and allowed ministers to publicly campaign on both sides. In total, seven of the twenty-three members of the cabinet opposed EEC membership.

On 5 June 1975, the electorate were asked to vote yes or no on the question: "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?" Every administrative county in the UK had a majority of "Yes", except the Shetland Islands and the Outer Hebrides. In line with the outcome of the vote, the United Kingdom remained within the EEC.

Yes votes 17,378,581 (67.2%)
No votes: 8,470,073 (32.8%)
Turnout: 64.5%


Further developments
The opposition Labour Party campaigned in the 1983 general election on a commitment to withdraw from the EEC. It was heavily defeated as the Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher was re-elected. The Labour Party subsequently changed its policy.

As a result of the 1993 Maastricht Treaty, the EEC became the European Union.

The Referendum Party was formed in 1994 by Sir James Goldsmith to contest the 1997 general election on a platform of providing a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU. It fielded candidates in 547 constituencies at that election and won 810,860 votes. It failed to win a single parliamentary seat as its vote was spread out, losing its deposit (funded by Goldsmith) in 505 constituencies.

The United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) was also formed in the early 1990s. It achieved third place in the UK during the 2004 European elections, second place in the 2009 European elections and first place in the 2014 European elections. This last was the first time since 1906 that any party other than the Labour or Conservative parties had taken the largest share of the vote in a UK-wide election.


Referendum Promise
In 2012, British Prime Minister David Cameron rejected calls for a referendum on the UK's EU membership, but suggested the possibility of a future referendum "to ensure the UK's position within an evolving EU has 'the full-hearted support of the British people". In January 2013, Cameron announced that the Conservative Party would hold an in-out referendum on EU membership before the end of 2017, on a renegotiated package, if elected in 2015.

UKIP gained their first elected MP in October 2014, as Douglas Carswell won a by-election after defecting from the Conservatives. Mark Reckless, another defector from the Conservatives, subsequently won another by-election for UKIP in the autumn of 2014. UKIP won only a single seat (held by Carswell) in the 2015 general election, although it finished third in the popular vote.

The Conservative Party, led by David Cameron, won the 2015 general election. Soon afterwards the European Union Referendum Bill 2015–16 was introduced into parliament to enable the referendum. Despite being in favour of remaining in a reformed European Union himself, David Cameron has revoked collective ministerial responsibility and has instead allowed opponents of the EU in the Conservative Party to have a free vote according to their conscience, due to mounting pressure within the party.

The UK's EU Referendum will take place on Thursday 23rd June 2016.


2016 Referendum
In January 2013, British Prime Minister David Cameron announced that the United Kingdom would hold an in-out referendum on EU membership before the end of 2017 on a renegotiated package if the Conservative Party were re-elected in the United Kingdom general election, 2015. The party formed a majority government after that election and passed the European Union Referendum Act 2015 to enable the referendum. The referendum was held on 23 June 2016, and simply asked voters chose one of the following options: "Remain a member of the European Union", or "Leave the European Union".

The vote resulted in 51.9% in favour of withdrawing, making it the first country to decide to leave the EU. The United Kingdom is now deciding when to activate the withdrawal clause in the EU treaties - Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which gives a strict 2-year deadline from when withdrawal is notified to the EU until the actual withdrawal.

Number of local areas declared: 382/382

Remain: 16,141,241 (48.1%)
Leave: 17,410,742 (51.9%)
Rejected Ballots: 25,359
Total Electorate: 46,500,001
Turnout: 72.2%


Article 50 bill
On 1 February 2017, the House of Commons voted to approve the second reading of the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill 2017 to authorise the Prime Minister to give the Article 50 notice. In the parliamentary debates on the bill before enactment, members of the Commons and of the Lords expressed concerns about the prospective effects on trade and the economy, financial services, and research and innovation policy and the rights of UK citizens in or entering the EU, and EU citizens in or entering the UK.

On 1 March 2017, the House of Lords, in Committee, made an amendment for protecting EU nationals living in the UK, regardless of the rights of UK nationals continuing to live in member states of the EU. The amendment was to add to the bill a requirement that the government will introduce proposals within three months of the withdrawal notification to ensure EU citizens in the UK have the same residence rights after Brexit as before. Published statistics show many more EU nationals live in the UK (the greater numbers coming from Poland and the Republic of Ireland) than UK nationals living in other EU member states (the greater numbers in Spain and the Republic of Ireland). The Commons voted against the Lords amendment, and the bill passed both Houses of Parliament unamended for enactment by royal assent, which was given on 16 March 2017.

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by SKB »

David Cameron's 'Britain And Europe' Speech, Wednesday, 23rd January, 2013

The Prime Minister's speech on the future of the United Kingdom's relationship with the EU, given at Bloomberg's London headquarters. Wednesday, 23rd January, 2013.


With a UK Referendum to decide the future of our European Union membership now coming in 2017 (possibly 2016), how would you vote and why?

Today, Prime Minister David Cameron tells European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker that Britons are 'unhappy with status quo'.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32877712

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by IrishT »

Truth be told, I kind of want the UK to remain within Europe, not because I think Europe needs to compete with the US, but because if the UK leaves, Ireland has no real political allies. Ireland relies upon the UK to do most of our negotiating as a bloc, if we're on our own, you can bet your bottom dollar we'll be getting fecked up the ass.

If the UK leaves, I can only hope Ireland and the UK strengthen diplomatic ties, and our dignitaries fight for our corner every step of the way (the only thing we've really fought for in Europe is our Corporate Tax rate, which has gotten the EU to investigate us for State-aid to MNCs).

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by SKB »

Today's Queen's Speech at the State Opening Of Parliament confirms plans for the referendum.
http://ukdefenceforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=156

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by SDL »

I put couldn't care less as it's the closest to my opinion...

I think the time to make this decision without causing harm to the UK economy & standing in Europe has long since past. Stay or go, the consequences will be rough and people will attack the government.

I say hold the vote now and just get the mess over and done with.

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by SKB »

'Britain will not vote to leave EU, says Juncker'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ncker.html

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by GibMariner »

A vision of Britain outside the EU - confident, successful and free
It’s 2020, and the UK is flourishing outside of the EU. The rump Union, now a united bloc, continues its genteel decline, but Britain has become the most successful and competitive knowledge-based economy in the region. Our universities attract the world’s brightest students. We lead the way in software, biotech, law, finance and the audio-visual sector. We have forged a distinctive foreign policy, allied to Europe, but giving due weight to the US, India and other common-law, Anglophone democracies.
Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -free.html

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by Pymes75 »

IrishT wrote:Truth be told, I kind of want the UK to remain within Europe, not because I think Europe needs to compete with the US, but because if the UK leaves, Ireland has no real political allies. Ireland relies upon the UK to do most of our negotiating as a bloc, if we're on our own, you can bet your bottom dollar we'll be getting fecked up the ass.

If the UK leaves, I can only hope Ireland and the UK strengthen diplomatic ties, and our dignitaries fight for our corner every step of the way (the only thing we've really fought for in Europe is our Corporate Tax rate, which has gotten the EU to investigate us for State-aid to MNCs).
Agree completely, and I think there are other smaller EU nations who feel the same. Anyway, the ties between the UK and Ireland are so close that we should continue to support each other in Europe and beyond...

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

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MPs vote in favour of EU Referendum Bill by 544 to 53 in the second reading of the proposed bill.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33067157

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by unicorn77 »

I voted to come out anyway as I would rather be governed by the idiots we send to Westminster than a bunch of mainly foreign unelected bureaucrats. Although I do admit that I'm not entirely sure how the Brussels governance works, which is actually half the problem.

If it were totally clear cut that staying in was overwhelmingly beneficial I guess I'd have to grin and bear it, but it's not.

Conversely, I support the UK remaining united, as it's existed for so long and achieved so much - we now have, amongst other things, a shared history, language and culture. I hanker after getting Eire back into the fold although I realise this is a pipe dream even with a changed federal structure to address the concerns of the Scots.

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by IrishT »

unicorn77 wrote:Conversely, I support the UK remaining united, as it's existed for so long and achieved so much - we now have, amongst other things, a shared history, language and culture. I hanker after getting Eire back into the fold although I realise this is a pipe dream even with a changed federal structure to address the concerns of the Scots.
It's not in our interests to be part of the United Kingdom, to be honest. Ireland's per capita income is greater than the UK average, so if were part of the UK again, we'd just end up with little real control over international affairs and have to subsidize Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales (plus whoever else runs a deficit).

Close bonds, yes. Common Travel Area, yes. Economic co-operation, yes. Heck, I'm even in favour of stronger military co-operation or a flat-out bilateral alliance between us, but I really don't think a Union would ever be in our favour. Too much bad history and spilled blood. We've had people giving out about off-hand comments from an Lord Rana and Michael Fabricant that it would be good to have the Republic in the Commonwealth (our Taoiseach [what you'd call Prime Minster, but it actually translates to Clan Chieftain] ruled it out in a State visit). It probably would be a good thing for Ireland to join the Commonwealth, but our often bloody history is still too recent for us to open a real political discussion about such a move.

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by unicorn77 »

IrishT wrote:
"little real control over international affairs"

"Too much bad history and spilled blood"
I would agree with pretty much everything you say except that the first point above may come to pass within the EU anyway.

Regarding the latter point, I suspect that is the major sticking point, so more of an emotional thing than practical. If it came to it, maybe with the next economic crisis when the EU all but collapses anyway and it may become economically in Eire's interest to band together with the UK, I still can't see it happening. I just can't envisage any kind of federal structure for a larger UK where the Queen is not head of state and that for Eire I would think is a no-no. Unless the future King makes such a cods up of it that we get rid of the monarchy........

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by IrishT »

unicorn77 wrote:I would agree with pretty much everything you say except that the first point above may come to pass within the EU anyway.
Ireland is a net receiver in the EU, that is: we receive more than we pay. Even so, I'm sceptical of the European Union. It seems like a great idea until you actually get into the nitty gritty details and the internal politics, where anything that doesn't benefit Germany doesn't fly but countries who are affected by something good for Germany or France are still forced to go along with it.
unicorn77 wrote:Regarding the latter point, I suspect that is the major sticking point, so more of an emotional thing than practical. If it came to it, maybe with the next economic crisis when the EU all but collapses anyway and it may become economically in Eire's interest to band together with the UK, I still can't see it happening. I just can't envisage any kind of federal structure for a larger UK where the Queen is not head of state and that for Eire I would think is a no-no. Unless the future King makes such a cods up of it that we get rid of the monarchy........
We already operate together to launch joint-missions in Asia and such to attract investment (http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/ne ... ssion.html) and Britain already runs a trade surplus with us, so it's unlikely we'll stop free trade even if the EU collapses. It's better for us to be externally associated rather than part of a Union. Our population difference skewers the balance of power heavily in Britain's favour. And yeah, I don't think we'd ever have a Monarchy here again. We actually had a civil war over it, when the War of Independence concluded with the King/Queen still being our (nominal) head of state and the partition of the North.

As an idea, it looks like it would be better for both of us, but when you get own into it, a union would only really favour the UK and probably weaken Ireland's position.

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by marktigger »

IrishT wrote:
unicorn77 wrote:Conversely, I support the UK remaining united, as it's existed for so long and achieved so much - we now have, amongst other things, a shared history, language and culture. I hanker after getting Eire back into the fold although I realise this is a pipe dream even with a changed federal structure to address the concerns of the Scots.
It's not in our interests to be part of the United Kingdom, to be honest. Ireland's per capita income is greater than the UK average, so if were part of the UK again, we'd just end up with little real control over international affairs and have to subsidize Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales (plus whoever else runs a deficit).

Close bonds, yes. Common Travel Area, yes. Economic co-operation, yes. Heck, I'm even in favour of stronger military co-operation or a flat-out bilateral alliance between us, but I really don't think a Union would ever be in our favour. Too much bad history and spilled blood. We've had people giving out about off-hand comments from an Lord Rana and Michael Fabricant that it would be good to have the Republic in the Commonwealth (our Taoiseach [what you'd call Prime Minster, but it actually translates to Clan Chieftain] ruled it out in a State visit). It probably would be a good thing for Ireland to join the Commonwealth, but our often bloody history is still too recent for us to open a real political discussion about such a move.

Yes and watching the retoric being ramping up in the North at present. Don't think its anything to do with Austerity in Northern Ireland its ahead of Easter Rising 100 and sein feins further ambitions.
Closer links between the Irish Republic and the UK would be interesting especially stuff that brings the countries closer together and counter acts the arguments. Maybe the Irish Government and people reaching out to the Unionist community.

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

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The Electoral Commission said the wording proposed by ministers - "should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?" - could be perceived as biased to the status quo.

It has proposed adding the words "or leave the European Union?"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34114303

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by marktigger »

Corbyn/Farage on the same platform would be interesting to see/hear

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by RetroSicotte »

marktigger wrote:Corbyn/Farage on the same platform would be interesting to see/hear
I don't think my monitor would survive it.

But then I doubt it'd stand me ever watching anything Corbyn says, period. At least Farage I can just ignore knowing he'll never be relevant to the throne. Corbyn however...

Christ, that man scares me. It's like the SNP all over again on a larger scale.

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Re: Brexit - The UK's European Union Referendum

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by Pseudo »

arfah wrote:http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/to ... X820150905

Majority of UK voters favour leaving EU, migration fears weigh - poll

I'm still Undecided
I think that in the end we'll vote to remain by a larger margin than the Scottish referendum. Once the economic scare stories start and major companies begin saying that they'll have to consider moving, it'll move the unsure folks quite decisively to remaining in the EU.

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

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Pseudo wrote:I think that in the end we'll vote to remain by a larger margin than the Scottish referendum. Once the economic scare stories start and major companies begin saying that they'll have to consider moving, it'll move the unsure folks quite decisively to remaining in the EU.
Indeed. I'm amazed at the number of people saying they favoured leaving unconditionally in the UKDF poll, considering how many of presumably at least some of the same people say they want Britain to be a stronger and more relevant geopolitical force.

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by Little J »

If there was a third option, stay but trade only, which I believe was the original vote back in the 70's. I'd be fine with that, it's the extra stuff that was added without a vote, that I'm not happy with.

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by RetroSicotte »

Really, the biggest "feather in the cap" for getting this all dealt with and staying in has to come from the biggest and most underspoken thing about it all.

Stability is good.

Stability is VERY good for countries.

The unknown and sweeping sudden changes based on no real outgoing plan are what completely screw them. The US didn't become the superpower (not just in military terms) it is today through making unusual and sharp changes. Its true rise came from stability, persistency and just gradually growing on and developing itself.

I just got done with years of dread for the Union breaking apart. Leaving the EU wouldn't just fracture our links with our closest partners, it would also inevitably lead to another Scotland fiasco. I'm shocked that people promoting "leave" never seem to realise that by leaving they could be pushing Scotland away, something I saw them all too much resisting.

Funny how "current issues" always forget the bigger picture in a chase for the "simple shout."

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Re: RE: Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by Pseudo »

RetroSicotte wrote:Really, the biggest "feather in the cap" for getting this all dealt with and staying in has to come from the biggest and most underspoken thing about it all.

Stability is good.

Stability is VERY good for countries.

The unknown and sweeping sudden changes based on no real outgoing plan are what completely screw them. The US didn't become the superpower (not just in military terms) it is today through making unusual and sharp changes. Its true rise came from stability, persistency and just gradually growing on and developing itself.

This is the same logic that won the Scottish referendum, wins elections and damns a Corbyn led Labour Party to electoral insignificance. There's no point trying to convert those who already staunchly believe either way. It's in the centre where these things are won, and the centre is mostly filled with people with a mortgage, family and pension. These people aren't going to risk what stability they have, particularly in unstable times.
I just got done with years of dread for the Union breaking apart. Leaving the EU wouldn't just fracture our links with our closest partners, it would also inevitably lead to another Scotland fiasco. I'm shocked that people promoting "leave" never seem to realise that by leaving they could be pushing Scotland away, something I saw them all too much resisting.

Funny how "current issues" always forget the bigger picture in a chase for the "simple shout."
Quite. I expect that in the forthcoming Holyrood election the SNP will include something in its manifesto to say that it will seek a second referendum (only) in the event of substantial changes to the union, such as secession from the EU.

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Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by Cooper »

RetroSicotte wrote: I just got done with years of dread for the Union breaking apart. Leaving the EU wouldn't just fracture our links with our closest partners, it would also inevitably lead to another Scotland fiasco. I'm shocked that people promoting "leave" never seem to realise that by leaving they could be pushing Scotland away, something I saw them all too much resisting.

Sorry but the EU is just another one in the long list of excuses to threaten the rUK with.

If the SNP don't use a UK exit as an excuse for another referendum, its only a matter of them using another one. Besides would the SNP risk another referendum based on a EU exit unless there was a very big margin in favour of Scotland staying in, say 65-35? what if the poll analysis showed the margin was less than 10%, would that really be a big enough margin to risk it?

I really don't think Sturgeon would have the guts to risk losing another referendum over the EU, because just like Trident, it isn't as clear an issue as the nationalists like to make out, there is plenty of EU scepticism in Scotland.

Ultimately the survival of the union will depend on whether it can stay together long enough to see the inevitable backlash against the SNP from the Scottish electorate.

All political party's peak, then the arrogance sets in, they become complacent (which is where we are now) and in time become as corrupt and useless as the ones they replaced (which is coming).

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Re: RE: Re: UK and the European Union. In or Out?

Post by Pseudo »

Cooper wrote:
RetroSicotte wrote: I just got done with years of dread for the Union breaking apart. Leaving the EU wouldn't just fracture our links with our closest partners, it would also inevitably lead to another Scotland fiasco. I'm shocked that people promoting "leave" never seem to realise that by leaving they could be pushing Scotland away, something I saw them all too much resisting.

Sorry but the EU is just another one in the long list of excuses to threaten the rUK with.

If the SNP don't use a UK exit as an excuse for another referendum, its only a matter of them using another one. Besides would the SNP risk another referendum based on a EU exit unless there was a very big margin in favour of Scotland staying in, say 65-35? what if the poll analysis showed the margin was less than 10%, would that really be a big enough margin to risk it?

I really don't think Sturgeon would have the guts to risk losing another referendum over the EU, because just like Trident, it isn't as clear an issue as the nationalists like to make out, there is plenty of EU scepticism in Scotland.

I think Sturgeon has made it pretty clear that the UK voting to leave the EU when Scotland has voted to stay would result in another referendum, and it's probably one that they'd win because the unionist campaign would have lost credibility on the crucial question of financial security because the UK had just jumped off a cliff and in to the unknown itself.
Ultimately the survival of the union will depend on whether it can stay together long enough to see the inevitable backlash against the SNP from the Scottish electorate.

All political party's peak, then the arrogance sets in, they become complacent (which is where we are now) and in time become as corrupt and useless as the ones they replaced (which is coming).
This I do agree with. The SNP's "teflon" status in Scottish politics is mostly predicated on having little economic control, which allows them to blame Westminster for all their woes whilst claiming every success for themselves. If anyone cares to look their record in power has been patchy at best and certainly no better than the prior Labour led Holyrood governments.

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