Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

For discussions on politics and current events.

Should the UK now withdraw from the Eurovision Song Contest ?!

:wave: Yes!
30
61%
:evil: No!
19
39%
 
Total votes: 49

dmereifield
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by dmereifield »

Are there still people that think that the motivation for voting for Brexit was about the level of imports and exports to the EU?

R686
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by R686 »

dmereifield wrote: 29 Mar 2022, 20:06 Are there still people that think that the motivation for voting for Brexit was about the level of imports and exports to the EU?
It seems so from that earlier post

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by sunstersun »

dmereifield wrote: 29 Mar 2022, 20:06 Are there still people that think that the motivation for voting for Brexit was about the level of imports and exports to the EU?
Being poorer and less influential was the motivation I guess.

jedibeeftrix
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by jedibeeftrix »

You are bizarrely invested in this, sunstersun.

May i ask you to please take an interest in why people might have wanted this rather than just bitching and moaning?


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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by R686 »

All these paywalls suck

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by jedibeeftrix »

killing the page load as soon as the text displays usually works for me

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by TheLoneRanger »

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/16009 ... ports-fall

BREXIT BRITAIN'S post-exit trade agreement with the EU has seen a "major shock" in its first year with a fall of 25 percent in imports compared to elsewhere.

It did find, however, that exports to the bloc avoided such a dramatic fall, with a smaller and temporary drop.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... rade-deal/

>> And the UK has still not imposed full Customs controls on products coming into the UK from the EU ..
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Now, as I promised NOT to :angel: come back here again, do checkout my v early posts about the COVID (public policy) response
... and how inflation would be a quaranteed by-product

I am - of course not :angel: - second guessing the folks that are doing the 'stuff' that I used to do in my working life.
- but they do seem pretty incompetent ; when you look further out than a year. The famous Mid-Term (in the long run we are all dead etc.)

Let me get back to the matters of the MoD (never been anywhere near there) and Geopolitics - the latter of no interest around here... judging from the volume of comments :yawn: on the appropriate thread
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Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by SW1 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote: 21 May 2022, 19:26 Now, as I promised NOT to :angel: come back here again, do checkout my v early posts about the COVID (public policy) response
... and how inflation would be a quaranteed by-product

I am - of course not :angel: - second guessing the folks that are doing the 'stuff' that I used to do in my working life.
- but they do seem pretty incompetent ; when you look further out than a year. The famous Mid-Term (in the long run we are all dead etc.)

Let me get back to the matters of the MoD (never been anywhere near there) and Geopolitics - the latter of no interest around here... judging from the volume of comments :yawn: on the appropriate thread
Geopolitics are of interest, I do like reading your take on such things
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zanahoria
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by zanahoria »

This thread from a wine importer gives a good overview of why Brexit is making things more expensive.



We are now 18 months into Brexit and after huge disruption to my business I can finally get a real picture, in financial terms, of just what a bad move Brexit it has been for my company and every other importer.

Pre-Brexit, shipping goods was relatively straightforward from the EU. Order, collection and delivery within 7-10 days was the norm from every part of the EU, which accounts for 66.6% of all wine consumed in the U.K.

The average cost was £170-£190 per single pallet for the logistics and this pallet could be mixed with multiple suppliers (not anymore) including EU movement documents. These were the only costs. So in other words easy and cheap to trade.

Now let’s contrast and move to where we are today by each EU country. France is by far my biggest region for importation. On average my lead time from order to delivery has moved from 10 days to 26 days. This makes a big difference over 250 SKU’s.

The fastest lead times today are with Spain which now regularly takes 14-21 days, Portugal slightly longer, Germany and Austria is 28-35 days, and the worst is Italy which has taken 45-70 days over the last three shipments.

Costs too have changed dramatically. The fixed logistics charge of £180 is a distant memory! The single pallet rate from France is now £280, for Spain it’s £270, Germany £310, Austria £340, & Italy it’s £340. I should add these are the best rate single pallet rates we have found.

Now in addition to this we have the paperwork fees and this is really where things have got expensive. These costs are charged by brokers working along side hauliers create the clearance docs on the EU side and the U.K.

The paperwork costs vary depending on the haulier used, as some have there own in house customs department and others out source the work. The cheapest I have seen is £25 per export and import document and the most expensive is £150.

Once again the systems required on both sides of the channel to create these documents is free to use once your registered to use them, so you do need to ask why are these fees so high?

My company doesn’t pay the U.K. side as we have access to the required systems. But this has actually made it more difficult in some cases to use the cheapest logistics companies as they did not want us to do our own U.K. documents. Profiteering maybe?

So to the raw numbers per single pallet shipped inc paperwork declarations. France is now £165 more expensive, Spain £155, Italy £180, Germany and Austria £150. There would be an additional £65 from all EU countries if I didn’t do the U.K. docs.

A pallet of wine holds an average of 672 bottles, the most is 840 for light weight bottles and 480 for Sparkling wine. So the average increase per bottle just for logistics since Brexit is 25p. I have not inc fuel surcharges which is a different issue.

You then have the additional staffing which in our case has been a full time member of staff only working in Brexit related paperwork 39 hours a week. That’s a further 13p per bottle on every we ship.

We have then needed to hold more stock due to the unreliable lead times which means more capital is locked up in stock. I still don’t have a firm figure for this but my best estimate is a further 20p a bottle. Remember this is just to stand still and offer our regular service.

So our cost have increased with zero benefits to anyone by 58p a bottle. Once margins are are applied at the usual wholesaler and retailer percentages this 58p becomes over £1.50 a bottle FOR NO BENEFITS TO ANYONE, and it’s you the consumer that’s paying this.
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by zanahoria »

To me a return to the Single Market in the next 5 years is a strong possibility - a set up that Daniel Hannan of Vote Leave said we wouldn’t leave as part of his Brexit campaign.
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by jedibeeftrix »

Where this becomes problematic is that it's really easy to make this an ugly choice to advocate, given the campaign will run precisely as follows:

Q - "You want us to rejoin the Single Market to ease trade disruption, right?"
A - "Yes"
Q - "Without the rebate?
A - "Yes, that's gone sadly.
Q - "Without the financial service regulator?
A - "Yes, that too"
Q - "And the medicines regulator?"
A - "Yes, i'm afraid so?"
Q - "So minus a say in regulation of the key growth industries of Fin-Serv and Medicines, you also want to leave us subject to Precuationary Principle regulation in Data, AI, Biotech, GMO, Energy too?
A - "Errr. yes, i guess so.
Q - "Cherry on top question here, will we need to join a Customs Union to 'solve' the Northern Ireland problem?"
A - "Yes, sounds sensible"
Q - "And will the EU as a whole have an interest in building foriegn trade integration in a way that is advantageous to the UK?"
A - "Well, i'm sure there will be an element of consultation!"
Q - "Aside, from the economic aspect, will we have to re-bind ourselves to the Flanking Policies of social, employment, and environmental regulations?"
A - "Now you mention it, that does sound rather likely"

And then they can merrily march the argument on to rejoining the EU shortly thereafter, because "that's what you really want if we're honest, isn't it!":

Q - "Will we get to stay outside Schengen?"
A - "Oh no, the French will be terribly keen to get us onside!"
Q - "What about the Freedom, Security and Justice opt-out we secured?"
A - "Ooh, no that's gone."
Q - "And that charter of fundamental rights?
A - "Oh, we all knew Blair was having fun when he equated its importance with the beano, but no, even that is gone."
Q - "Now, here is a tricky one; you know there has always been a bit of domestic fluster whenever anyone floats the idea of a 'euro' army...?
A - "Ah, sorry old bean, that ship's sailed: a CDSP will be harmonising national foriegn policy in future"
Q - "Well, so far so promising. Last question; how would you feel about us steering a little to the windward side of eurozone membership?"
A - "Ah, well. Yes, that's a tricky one, but we'll have a word with the French certainly. Sound them out, so to speak..."

It will be jolly good entertainment.
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by dmereifield »

jedibeeftrix wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 17:11 Where this becomes problematic is that it's really easy to make this an ugly choice to advocate, given the campaign will run precisely as follows:

Q - "You want us to rejoin the Single Market to ease trade disruption, right?"
A - "Yes"
Q - "Without the rebate?
A - "Yes, that's gone sadly.
Q - "Without the financial service regulator?
A - "Yes, that too"
Q - "And the medicines regulator?"
A - "Yes, i'm afraid so?"
Q - "So minus a say in regulation of the key growth industries of Fin-Serv and Medicines, you also want to leave us subject to Precuationary Principle regulation in Data, AI, Biotech, GMO, Energy too?
A - "Errr. yes, i guess so.
Q - "Cherry on top question here, will we need to join a Customs Union to 'solve' the Northern Ireland problem?"
A - "Yes, sounds sensible"
Q - "And will the EU as a whole have an interest in building foriegn trade integration in a way that is advantageous to the UK?"
A - "Well, i'm sure there will be an element of consultation!"
Q - "Aside, from the economic aspect, will we have to re-bind ourselves to the Flanking Policies of social, employment, and environmental regulations?"
A - "Now you mention it, that does sound rather likely"

And then they can merrily march the argument on to rejoining the EU shortly thereafter, because "that's what you really want if we're honest, isn't it!":

Q - "Will we get to stay outside Schengen?"
A - "Oh no, the French will be terribly keen to get us onside!"
Q - "What about the Freedom, Security and Justice opt-out we secured?"
A - "Ooh, no that's gone."
Q - "And that charter of fundamental rights?
A - "Oh, we all knew Blair was having fun when he equated its importance with the beano, but no, even that is gone."
Q - "Now, here is a tricky one; you know there has always been a bit of domestic fluster whenever anyone floats the idea of a 'euro' army...?
A - "Ah, sorry old bean, that ship's sailed: a CDSP will be harmonising national foriegn policy in future"
Q - "Well, so far so promising. Last question; how would you feel about us steering a little to the windward side of eurozone membership?"
A - "Ah, well. Yes, that's a tricky one, but we'll have a word with the French certainly. Sound them out, so to speak..."

It will be jolly good entertainment.
I dropped in here for a laugh today, first time on God knows how long. Was going to respond to this fantasy but you've nailed it. I would just add that thr lack of rebate will be fo more like:
Q: how much will thr annual fees be?
A: about £20 billion, but they'll increase each year as the economy grows

Then there's:
Q: Will it entail freedom of movement (more explicit than the Schengen question)?
A: Yes

And one you missed:
Q: can we keep all the new trade deals and other preferencial agreements we have made post Brexit with Australia, New Zealand (and whoever else we make agreements with in the near future)?
A: no

It ain't going g to happen. Not even Euro fanatic Sir Kier will touch that debate with a bargepole.
What is more possible, is a Labour Government signing up toa series of smaller agreements and arrangements which replicate some aspects of membership, more covertly, with less scrutiny of the drawbacks (I.e. letting the EU dictate laws and regulations we'll have to dollow)
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by zanahoria »

I liked your imaginary discussion of how future governments might return the UK to the EU. I understand that you are not supportive of that and perhaps view joining the SM as the thin end of the wedge. Fair enough. My comments between yours are an attempt from my phone to answer some of the points you make. The answers are shortish because I type slowly, so it’s not me being irate!

Q - "You want us to rejoin the Single Market to ease trade disruption, right?"
A - "Yes"
Q - "Without the rebate?
A - "Yes, that's gone sadly.”

The rebate was only applicable as a paid up member of the EU so should not be an issue for joining the SM

Q - "Without the financial service regulator?
A - "Yes, that too"
Q - "And the medicines regulator?"
A - "Yes, i'm afraid so?"

Do you mean the EU medicines regulator that used to reside in London and the UK commissioner whose brief used to be financial services? I think it would be unrealistic to expect we’d have these institutions/briefs as new members of the SM.

Q - "So minus a say in regulation of the key growth industries of Fin-Serv and Medicines, you also want to leave us subject to Precuationary Principle regulation in Data, AI, Biotech, GMO, Energy too?

Why would that be a bad thing? AIUI the precautionary principle is just regulation to prevent the disastrous consequences of unfettered scientific & financial activity.

A - "Errr. yes, i guess so.
Q - "Cherry on top question here, will we need to join a Customs Union to 'solve' the Northern Ireland problem?"
A - "Yes, sounds sensible"

Northern Ireland are loving the current best of both worlds situation - only the minority unionist politicians are are kicking up a fuss, which seems to be losing them votes & core support. A future government might go for the CU as well. We’ll see.

Q - "And will the EU as a whole have an interest in building foriegn trade integration in a way that is advantageous to the UK?"

Being in the single market will give us an advantage over everyone outside it. It will be especially advantageous to the UK because unlike the other trade deals we’ve copied and pasted from the EU with countries on different continents, this SM is on our doorstep. Trading within the single market is the easiest way to prosperity just because of its proximity. Germany which is still “shackled” to the EU has managed to trade more effectively with China than us so far, so only being “stuck” in the SM shouldn’t hold us back that much wrt to trading outside Europe.

A - "Well, i'm sure there will be an element of consultation!"
Q - "Aside, from the economic aspect, will we have to re-bind ourselves to the Flanking Policies of social, employment, and environmental regulations?"

Those pesky regulations protecting:

- workers from exploitation;
- the general health of the population from air pollution, etc;
- the environment from a disastrous collapse in the bee population, etc.

A - "Now you mention it, that does sound rather likely"

And then they can merrily march the argument on to rejoining the EU shortly thereafter, because "that's what you really want if we're honest, isn't it!":

Not necessarily - Norway still doesn’t seem to be in a rush to do this. Funnily enough, Norway was Farage’s “go to” example of a successful European country doing well outside the EU.

Everything below only relevant to EU application.

Q - "Will we get to stay outside Schengen?"
A - "Oh no, the French will be terribly keen to get us onside!"
Q - "What about the Freedom, Security and Justice opt-out we secured?"
A - "Ooh, no that's gone."
Q - "And that charter of fundamental rights?
A - "Oh, we all knew Blair was having fun when he equated its importance with the beano, but no, even that is gone."
Q - "Now, here is a tricky one; you know there has always been a bit of domestic fluster whenever anyone floats the idea of a 'euro' army...?
A - "Ah, sorry old bean, that ship's sailed: a CDSP will be harmonising national foriegn policy in future"
Q - "Well, so far so promising. Last question; how would you feel about us steering a little to the windward side of eurozone membership?"
A - "Ah, well. Yes, that's a tricky one, but we'll have a word with the French certainly. Sound them out, so to speak..."

Lastly, does anyone know if we’ve finally started checking all the stuff that comes in from the EU yet? Aren’t we under some sort of international obligation to do that? And illegal immigration - has that increased or decreased since we left?

Personally, I still can’t help but feel Brexit is more an exercise in demolishing rights and protections to satisfy billionaires and businesses as opposed to freeing British citizens from the tyranny of the EU.
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by jedibeeftrix »

zanahoria wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 21:46 I liked your imaginary discussion of how future governments might return the UK to the EU. I understand that you are not supportive of that and perhaps view joining the SM as the thin end of the wedge. Fair enough. My comments between yours are an attempt from my phone to answer some of the points you make. The answers are shortish because I type slowly, so it’s not me being irate!
I'd like to be very clear that this is my understanding of how the debate will be conducted, i.e. similar to 2016.
Not a statement that I would wish it to be so.
zanahoria wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 21:46 Q - "You want us to rejoin the Single Market to ease trade disruption, right?"
A - "Yes"
Q - "Without the rebate?
A - "Yes, that's gone sadly.”

The rebate was only applicable as a paid up member of the EU so should not be an issue for joining the SM
But the rebate remains very relevant, as it would appear that the cost of EEA membership would only be somewhere between 25-12% cheaper that what the UK was paying to be in the EU:
https://fullfact.org/europe/norway-eu-payments/
"Let me try and understand your position here, you want to lose control of vast swathes of UK policy making here in order that we get a 12% discount on our previous fees. Is that right?"
zanahoria wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 21:46 Q - "Without the financial service regulator?
A - "Yes, that too"
Q - "And the medicines regulator?"
A - "Yes, i'm afraid so?"

Do you mean the EU medicines regulator that used to reside in London and the UK commissioner whose brief used to be financial services? I think it would be unrealistic to expect we’d have these institutions/briefs as new members of the SM.
Indeed. Areas in which the UK is very dominant - massively so in the case of financial services - and areas which the EU has not demonstrated a great deal of friendliness in the past. The UK's 'free-wheeling anglo-saxon capitalism' is not greeted with much enthusiasm in france, and i doubt EU regulation would do anything but knacker its competitiveness.
zanahoria wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 21:46 Q - "So minus a say in regulation of the key growth industries of Fin-Serv and Medicines, you also want to leave us subject to Precautionary Principle regulation in Data, AI, Biotech, GMO, Energy too?
A - "Errr. yes, i guess so.

Why would that be a bad thing? AIUI the precautionary principle is just regulation to prevent the disastrous consequences of unfettered scientific & financial activity.
Don't get me wrong, there is a place in this world for the Precautionary Principle as a regulatory model; it is useful in policy areas subject to catastrophic consequences whose horizon lies far beyond the understanding of a single four/five year parliament. Climate change being a great example.

But its use is abused in low-trust polity's such as the EU, as making people 'safer' is all they can do within the limitations of their crippled political legitimacy:
So we get poor regulation like GDPR, and a lack of european FANG's.
So we get poor regulation like the EU AI Act, and a lack of european Deep Minds.
So we get poor regulation that prohibits GMO adoption, while the developing world struggles with food security.
So we get poor regulation that prohibits Biotech/Medicines adoption, linked to the three above.
So we get poor regulation that limits nuclear and fracking (because Climate!), while furiously digging up brown coal.
So we get extremely poor financial regulation regimes like MIFID2 that hamper proper functioning markets.

I take the view that Demonstrable Harm should be the default regulatory model for most economic/social activity, and that this is the model most compatible with high growth nascent tech industries. The EU is choking its own future here.
zanahoria wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 21:46 Q - "Cherry on top question here, will we need to join a Customs Union to 'solve' the Northern Ireland problem?"
A - "Yes, sounds sensible"

Northern Ireland are loving the current best of both worlds situation - only the minority unionist politicians are are kicking up a fuss, which seems to be losing them votes & core support. A future government might go for the CU as well. We’ll see.
Northern Ireland cannot form a government right now, and the NIP is damaging the Belfast agreement - because the EU forgets that consent of [both] communities matters, and that east/west links matter every smidge as much as north/south.
zanahoria wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 21:46 Q - "And will the EU as a whole have an interest in building foreign trade integration in a way that is advantageous to the UK?"
A - "Well, i'm sure there will be an element of consultation!"

Being in the single market will give us an advantage over everyone outside it. It will be especially advantageous to the UK because unlike the other trade deals we’ve copied and pasted from the EU with countries on different continents, this SM is on our doorstep. Trading within the single market is the easiest way to prosperity just because of its proximity. Germany which is still “shackled” to the EU has managed to trade more effectively with China than us so far, so only being “stuck” in the SM shouldn’t hold us back that much wrt to trading outside Europe.
And yet it will end our ability to conduct trade agreements with the RoW - which is fast going from 75% of world trade to 90% of world trade.
Yes, yes. Gravity, etc. And yet the EU diminishes in importance and will build its external trade relations with in the interests of its [members], not the UK. As it should.

And i'd like to point out that jettisoning the copy-n-paste rollover deals might be easy, but once we join the trans-pacific trade deal the whole thing becomes enormously more complicated to coordinate with Single Market membership. That evidence based sanitary/phyto-sanitary model is not at all compatible with the EU's risk based SPS regime. Demonstrable Harm vs Precautionary Principle.
God Willing this inept Tory gov't sets that capstone in place before it collapses!
zanahoria wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 21:46
Q - "Aside, from the economic aspect, will we have to re-bind ourselves to the Flanking Policies of social, employment, and environmental regulations?"
A - "Now you mention it, that does sound rather likely"

Those pesky regulations protecting:

- workers from exploitation;
- the general health of the population from air pollution, etc;
- the environment from a disastrous collapse in the bee population, etc.
And yet they will have little legitimacy in the UK as they derive from a process that has no democratic accountability or representation.
zanahoria wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 21:46 And then they can merrily march the argument on to rejoining the EU shortly thereafter, because "that's what you really want if we're honest, isn't it!":

Not necessarily - Norway still doesn’t seem to be in a rush to do this. Funnily enough, Norway was Farage’s “go to” example of a successful European country doing well outside the EU.
And yet that is how the debate will conducted - on the basis that this is what advocates of the single market [really] want:
"It's all very well for a little nation like Norway to be a rule-taker, it hardly has a choice in the matter, but for the UK...!"
zanahoria wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 21:46 Everything below only relevant to EU application.

Q - "Will we get to stay outside Schengen?"
A - "Oh no, the French will be terribly keen to get us onside!"
Q - "What about the Freedom, Security and Justice opt-out we secured?"
A - "Ooh, no that's gone."
Q - "And that charter of fundamental rights?
A - "Oh, we all knew Blair was having fun when he equated its importance with the beano, but no, even that is gone."
Q - "Now, here is a tricky one; you know there has always been a bit of domestic fluster whenever anyone floats the idea of a 'euro' army...?
A - "Ah, sorry old bean, that ship's sailed: a CDSP will be harmonising national foreign policy in future"
Q - "Well, so far so promising. Last question; how would you feel about us steering a little to the windward side of eurozone membership?"
A - "Ah, well. Yes, that's a tricky one, but we'll have a word with the French certainly. Sound them out, so to speak..."

Lastly, does anyone know if we’ve finally started checking all the stuff that comes in from the EU yet? Aren’t we under some sort of international obligation to do that?

And illegal immigration - has that increased or decreased since we left?
I understand that we aren't checking all incoming goods. I can see that we should be in principle, and yet I also accept the main benefit of international trade is ensuring that the domestic market receives the imports it requires (85% of domestic market activity) rather than that exporters get the competitive advantage they need in foreign parts (15% of domestic market activity).

On immigration, it is important to note here that the salience of immigration as an electoral issue declined massively once the public felt that there was control on the vast majority. Freedom of movement would only reverse this (happy) trend. And it won't be long before someone points out that previous gov't managed the freedom of movement electoral issue by more tightly restricting access to the UK from the RoW:
"Are you content that we should return to the previous immigration system where we discriminated against 90% of the worlds populations (including some of our closest kith and Kin!), in order to privilege 6% with unrestricted access just because they happen to live closer to us?"

Just for the sake of completeness; i ought to add tax harmonisation to the list of wonderful things that Single Market advocates will have to answer for (because their advocacy will be understood in political debate as a stepping stone to re-entry:
"So, let's talk about tampons. You have no objection to making them VAT payable I take it? An additional 20% cost jacked onto an essential good during a cost of living crisis..."
zanahoria wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 21:46 Personally, I still can’t help but feel Brexit is more an exercise in demolishing rights and protections to satisfy billionaires and businesses as opposed to freeing British citizens from the tyranny of the EU.
Which is fine and well. I can well imagine that someone with a natural bent towards a more collective social democracy, more interested in positive liberty, would be quite comfortable as a member of the EU/Single Market.
I merely ask you to understand that this is all possible outside of the EU/Single Market if only domestic electorate can be swayed to vote for it...
... But those of a different persuasion - more individualist market economy, more interested in negative liberty - found the pre-2016 arrangements increasingly intolerable.
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by Scimitar54 »

There is just one word needed to describe these REMOANERS / REJOINERS / SPOILERS and that is simply “Quislings”.

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by Cooper »

Scimitar54 wrote: 05 Jun 2022, 13:13 There is just one word needed to describe these REMOANERS / REJOINERS / SPOILERS and that is simply “Quislings”.
More like a bunch self entitled, middle class fucks, who just can't let go of the fact that the 'plebs' didn't do as they were told by their 'betters'.

In their minds, Any view or opinion that isn't the same as theirs, is illegitimate.

Scimitar54
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by Scimitar54 »

Whereas, in fact they are the very ones who are “Illegitimate”. :oops:

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SKB
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by SKB »



Nooooooooooooo!!!

jedibeeftrix
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by jedibeeftrix »

rofl!

much laughter

tomuk
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by tomuk »

SKB wrote: 17 Jun 2022, 13:24

Nooooooooooooo!!!
1) Why post this to the Brexit thread? The EBU is nothing to do with the EU. We haven't left the EBU.

2) I think its good that we get the chance to host. We already pay for a majority of the ESC through the BBC anyway due to being a 'founder' member. If we host we get to recoup some of the expenditure through tourism and positive PR.

bobp
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by bobp »

I am sure the remoaners who want to turn the UK into a republic and eliminate the royal family will be rejoicing on the streets at this Eurovision news which has no links to Brexit..... :mrgreen: :clap: :crazy:


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