Italian Armed Forces

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
Post Reply
FuNsTeR
Member
Posts: 151
Joined: 19 Jun 2015, 21:44

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by FuNsTeR »

those FREMMs look really nice and sleek

eagle spotters
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: 14 Jan 2016, 16:33
Italy

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by eagle spotters »

Italian frigate Carlo Bergamini (FREMM GP) fired an Aster 30 for 1st time to validate Extended Self Defence system (SAAM-ESD):

http://www.marina.difesa.it/conosciamoc ... 6_101.aspx

RetroSicotte
Retired Site Admin
Posts: 2657
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:10
United Kingdom

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by RetroSicotte »

I am perpetually impressed by Italy's escorts development. The Bergamini class is an absolute bar-setter for European frigates, and only continues to be moreso.

eagle spotters
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: 14 Jan 2016, 16:33
Italy

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by eagle spotters »

From Italian Navy twitter profile.

La Spezia Naval base, with 4 Bergamini class frigate:

Image

inch
Senior Member
Posts: 1311
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:35

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by inch »

yes the Italian fleet is going to be the best in Europe ,just wish the rn could have the numbers and our government the foresight. for all their financial worries the Italians are showing us how it should be done with quality and equipment ,well done Italy

dmereifield
Senior Member
Posts: 2762
Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
United Kingdom

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by dmereifield »

inch wrote:yes the Italian fleet is going to be the best in Europe ,just wish the rn could have the numbers and our government the foresight. for all their financial worries the Italians are showing us how it should be done with quality and equipment ,well done Italy
They get a lot of bang for their buck (or so it appears to me, in a top trumps style assessment on wiki!), but, for all its current problems, would the RN be enhanced by trading in it's super carriers, SSN and SSBN in order to improve it's escort fleet?

inch
Senior Member
Posts: 1311
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:35

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by inch »

well I think on the carrier front the Italians are going to have 2 large 245mt carriers and possible 3rd and they all going to be active at once ie not one in reserve all f35 capable with numbers no different to ours in reality also there carriers will have there own self defence missiles also a lot larger escort fleet with ships that work in all temps and all armed with decent weapons that have longer range (camm er as apposed to camm) and not just glorified opv we will call a type31 and I am sure they not going to have a problem with ship to ship engagement etc they might just have a suitable missile for the job im guessing and not just hot air and maybe one day possibly sometime in the future weapons ie 2030ish if we lucky, so in my assessment yes our brave fine personnel would be greatly enhanced and safer without a doubt in my view :-)

User avatar
WhitestElephant
Member
Posts: 389
Joined: 06 May 2015, 10:57
United Kingdom

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by WhitestElephant »

Italy is showing that a large (22-28 strong) escort fleet, fully equipped with Aster missiles, SSMs, torpedoes and all kinds of calibre guns doesn't break the bank.

Meanwhile, the RN will struggle with 6 plus 8 escorts with lots of FFBNW. Oh and god forbid you introduce another calibre gun... like say... the 3"... it will bankrupt the MoD and may cost us another 2 escorts.
Though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are. - Lord Tennyson (Ulysses)

inch
Senior Member
Posts: 1311
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:35

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by inch »

maybe its cos the Italian leadership stand up and kick a fuss and say what the hell is really going on to government and people when they still serving and not thinking better wait to get my pension first then shout from the sidelines like every previous ex leadership, and a government ready to take note and do something about it ,what a joke and what a cop out ,although every admiration to our hard working brave service personnel, well done lads and lasses true grit

RunningStrong
Senior Member
Posts: 1304
Joined: 06 May 2015, 20:52

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by RunningStrong »

Am I missing something here?

The Italian Navy has limited air defence destroyers, no SSN, no SSBN, and with 20 vessels so far only funded for 7 replacements.

Can we apply to same level of pessimism to them and then see how they weigh up against the RN?

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

RunningStrong wrote:Italian Navy has limited air defence destroyers, no SSN, no SSBN, and with 20 vessels so far only funded for 7 replacements.
I was going to say something on similar lines (add global deployability and resupply afloat; both cost money).

Interesting that 7 for 20... do you have the detail?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

inch
Senior Member
Posts: 1311
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:35

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by inch »

well the way I see it rightly or wrongly the Italians have got suitable weapons and assets in quantity now or future for there realistic area of defence and capable in depth to meet those challenges ,they might want more assets but they def got the basics right to a greater degree than uk .the uk on the other hand to meet all their areas of defence in no way stack up in comparison ,either have fewer goals and fewer properly equipped assets to meet them or build more assets and equip them if we want to go sailing around the world ,that's why we have ssn and resupply afloat just to get to the places the government want to sail to defend etc shame the rest of the surface fleet not upto the numbers ,manpower,weapons etc to reach that goal .nothing wrong with aspirations but do it properly or stop at home waters :-)

User avatar
WhitestElephant
Member
Posts: 389
Joined: 06 May 2015, 10:57
United Kingdom

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by WhitestElephant »

RunningStrong wrote:Am I missing something here?

The Italian Navy has limited air defence destroyers, no SSN, no SSBN, and with 20 vessels so far only funded for 7 replacements.

Can we apply to same level of pessimism to them and then see how they weigh up against the RN?
The Royal Navy may have 6 T45 as opposed to their 2 Horizon class, but lets remember that all 10 of their FREMM come with a very capable AESA radar and are fitted with Aster 15 & 30 missiles. Italy is also likely to bring into service up-to 16 PPA (currently 7 confirmed and 3 awaiting financial approval), again, all fitted with a capable AESA radar system and Aster 15 & 30 missiles. Compare that to our 8 T26 with Artisan and CAMM.

Oh, and lets not forget that Italy also equips their capital ships with Aster missiles too!

So yes, overall the Italian escort fleet has a far FAR better balance when it comes to air-defence than the Royal Navy.
Though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are. - Lord Tennyson (Ulysses)

eagle spotters
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: 14 Jan 2016, 16:33
Italy

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by eagle spotters »

Only a small clarification:

Cavour CVL
- is armed with 2 x A43 VLS modules for 32 Aster 15 missiles (with EMPAR PESA radar and LRR RAN-40L)
Trieste LHA (will replace Garibaldi LPH)
- will be only FFBNW for 2 x A50 modules for 16 Aster 15/30 modules (but will have, by origin, DBR AESA 4FF radar and new LRR Leonardo radar)
10 FREMM (5 in service and 5 on built)
- have/will have 14 x 76/62 Strales for Dart guided AA/AM ammu and 6 x 127/64 mm for Vulcano LR ammu (100/120 km)
PPA
- 16 planned (as vision about to 2035), 10 authorized by Parliament and 7 financed (with 3 more on option)
- only 5 (of 7 financed) PPA will be fitted eachone with 2 modules A50 for 16 Aster 15/30 missiles; 2 remaining will be only FFBNW
- all PPA will have 76/62 Strales for Dart guided AA/AM ammu (CIWS rules), 127/64 mm Vulcano LR ammu and 2 x NH90ASW/AW-101
- yes, all will have DBR AESA 4FF radar: but only 2 will have C and X band; 3 will have only C band, FFBNW X band, and 2 will have only X band but FFBNW C band.

and the Italian Navy seems not yet to be convinced of the goodness of the CAMM-ER...

eagle spotters
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: 14 Jan 2016, 16:33
Italy

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by eagle spotters »

New renderings and official news from new Fincantieri web-site:

PPA:

https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... essel-ppa/

Image

LHA "Trieste":

https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... irole-lhd/

Image

LSS "Vulcano"

https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... ssels/lss/

Image

USSP (Submarine Rescue Ship, to replace ITS Anteo):

https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... ort-ships/

Image

muttbutt
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: 07 May 2015, 22:07

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by muttbutt »

Oh the Trieste...lovely jubbly. 8-)

abc123
Senior Member
Posts: 2900
Joined: 10 May 2015, 18:15
United Kingdom

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by abc123 »

eagle spotters wrote:New renderings and official news from new Fincantieri web-site:

PPA:

https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... essel-ppa/

Image

LHA "Trieste":

https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... irole-lhd/

Image

Very nice. Me like it. ;)
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

inch
Senior Member
Posts: 1311
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:35

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by inch »

"Trieste" a twin island vessel I see ,I wonder how many other vessels we will see the same idea on ? ,the uk had a few firsts on carrier type vessels thru the years tbh ,shame the rest of the world showing us how to build vessels in adequate numbers to be useful or adventurous enough designs for general escort fleet and at least they arm them enough

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2784
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by Caribbean »

inch wrote:the uk had a few firsts on carrier type vessels thru the years tbh
Pretty much every "first", I think, from first concept onwards. Through decks, hangars, aircraft lifts, offset tower, angled flight deck, arrestor gear, landing light systems, catapults. Not sure about the ski jump, but I think that was RN as well
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by Timmymagic »

Caribbean wrote:Pretty much every "first", I think, from first concept onwards. Through decks, hangars, aircraft lifts, offset tower, angled flight deck, arrestor gear, landing light systems, catapults. Not sure about the ski jump, but I think that was RN as well
Ski Jump was all RN.

Pretty much the only innovation that isn't is nuclear power. It will be interesting to see if the USN looks closely at the Bedford array as well.

eagle spotters
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: 14 Jan 2016, 16:33
Italy

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by eagle spotters »

FREMM(IT)-GP 9 = "Spartaco Schergat"
FREMM(IT)-GP 10 = "Emilio Bianchi"

could be...

Image

with:
- new conformal IFF
- new AESA 3D 4FF radar, to replace MFRA AESA 3D radar (Kronos Grand NV)
- SLAT ASW decoy launching system
...

eagle spotters
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: 14 Jan 2016, 16:33
Italy

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by eagle spotters »

12 december 2016: a milestone for Italian Air Force and for JSF program

First two F-35A (built in Italy, to Cameri FACO) delivered to 13° Gruppo (Group), 32° Stormo (Wing) of Italian Air Force, to Amendola Air Base:

Image

Image

Image

eagle spotters
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: 14 Jan 2016, 16:33
Italy

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by eagle spotters »

18.11.2016, Sigonella Air Base, 41° Stormo (wing):

Italian Air Force received first two (of four) MPA, Leonardo P72A (ATR72-600MP):

Image

http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/atr-72mp

abc123
Senior Member
Posts: 2900
Joined: 10 May 2015, 18:15
United Kingdom

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by abc123 »

I wonder, if the Italians have took Spartan as basis for MPA conversion, would they get better aircraft?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

User avatar
Pseudo
Senior Member
Posts: 1732
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:37
Tuvalu

Re: Italian Armed Forces

Post by Pseudo »

abc123 wrote:I wonder, if the Italians have took Spartan as basis for MPA conversion, would they get better aircraft?
Are the French looking to replace the Atlantique any time soon? If they are then an MPA based on a joint French-Italian aircraft might be more of a contender.

Post Reply