Italian Armed Forces
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
Italian frigate Carlo Bergamini (FREMM GP) fired an Aster 30 for 1st time to validate Extended Self Defence system (SAAM-ESD):
http://www.marina.difesa.it/conosciamoc ... 6_101.aspx
http://www.marina.difesa.it/conosciamoc ... 6_101.aspx
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
I am perpetually impressed by Italy's escorts development. The Bergamini class is an absolute bar-setter for European frigates, and only continues to be moreso.
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
From Italian Navy twitter profile.
La Spezia Naval base, with 4 Bergamini class frigate:
La Spezia Naval base, with 4 Bergamini class frigate:
Re: Italian Armed Forces
yes the Italian fleet is going to be the best in Europe ,just wish the rn could have the numbers and our government the foresight. for all their financial worries the Italians are showing us how it should be done with quality and equipment ,well done Italy
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
They get a lot of bang for their buck (or so it appears to me, in a top trumps style assessment on wiki!), but, for all its current problems, would the RN be enhanced by trading in it's super carriers, SSN and SSBN in order to improve it's escort fleet?inch wrote:yes the Italian fleet is going to be the best in Europe ,just wish the rn could have the numbers and our government the foresight. for all their financial worries the Italians are showing us how it should be done with quality and equipment ,well done Italy
Re: Italian Armed Forces
well I think on the carrier front the Italians are going to have 2 large 245mt carriers and possible 3rd and they all going to be active at once ie not one in reserve all f35 capable with numbers no different to ours in reality also there carriers will have there own self defence missiles also a lot larger escort fleet with ships that work in all temps and all armed with decent weapons that have longer range (camm er as apposed to camm) and not just glorified opv we will call a type31 and I am sure they not going to have a problem with ship to ship engagement etc they might just have a suitable missile for the job im guessing and not just hot air and maybe one day possibly sometime in the future weapons ie 2030ish if we lucky, so in my assessment yes our brave fine personnel would be greatly enhanced and safer without a doubt in my view
- WhitestElephant
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
Italy is showing that a large (22-28 strong) escort fleet, fully equipped with Aster missiles, SSMs, torpedoes and all kinds of calibre guns doesn't break the bank.
Meanwhile, the RN will struggle with 6 plus 8 escorts with lots of FFBNW. Oh and god forbid you introduce another calibre gun... like say... the 3"... it will bankrupt the MoD and may cost us another 2 escorts.
Meanwhile, the RN will struggle with 6 plus 8 escorts with lots of FFBNW. Oh and god forbid you introduce another calibre gun... like say... the 3"... it will bankrupt the MoD and may cost us another 2 escorts.
Though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are. - Lord Tennyson (Ulysses)
Re: Italian Armed Forces
maybe its cos the Italian leadership stand up and kick a fuss and say what the hell is really going on to government and people when they still serving and not thinking better wait to get my pension first then shout from the sidelines like every previous ex leadership, and a government ready to take note and do something about it ,what a joke and what a cop out ,although every admiration to our hard working brave service personnel, well done lads and lasses true grit
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
Am I missing something here?
The Italian Navy has limited air defence destroyers, no SSN, no SSBN, and with 20 vessels so far only funded for 7 replacements.
Can we apply to same level of pessimism to them and then see how they weigh up against the RN?
The Italian Navy has limited air defence destroyers, no SSN, no SSBN, and with 20 vessels so far only funded for 7 replacements.
Can we apply to same level of pessimism to them and then see how they weigh up against the RN?
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
I was going to say something on similar lines (add global deployability and resupply afloat; both cost money).RunningStrong wrote:Italian Navy has limited air defence destroyers, no SSN, no SSBN, and with 20 vessels so far only funded for 7 replacements.
Interesting that 7 for 20... do you have the detail?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Italian Armed Forces
well the way I see it rightly or wrongly the Italians have got suitable weapons and assets in quantity now or future for there realistic area of defence and capable in depth to meet those challenges ,they might want more assets but they def got the basics right to a greater degree than uk .the uk on the other hand to meet all their areas of defence in no way stack up in comparison ,either have fewer goals and fewer properly equipped assets to meet them or build more assets and equip them if we want to go sailing around the world ,that's why we have ssn and resupply afloat just to get to the places the government want to sail to defend etc shame the rest of the surface fleet not upto the numbers ,manpower,weapons etc to reach that goal .nothing wrong with aspirations but do it properly or stop at home waters
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
The Royal Navy may have 6 T45 as opposed to their 2 Horizon class, but lets remember that all 10 of their FREMM come with a very capable AESA radar and are fitted with Aster 15 & 30 missiles. Italy is also likely to bring into service up-to 16 PPA (currently 7 confirmed and 3 awaiting financial approval), again, all fitted with a capable AESA radar system and Aster 15 & 30 missiles. Compare that to our 8 T26 with Artisan and CAMM.RunningStrong wrote:Am I missing something here?
The Italian Navy has limited air defence destroyers, no SSN, no SSBN, and with 20 vessels so far only funded for 7 replacements.
Can we apply to same level of pessimism to them and then see how they weigh up against the RN?
Oh, and lets not forget that Italy also equips their capital ships with Aster missiles too!
So yes, overall the Italian escort fleet has a far FAR better balance when it comes to air-defence than the Royal Navy.
Though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are. - Lord Tennyson (Ulysses)
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
Only a small clarification:
Cavour CVL
- is armed with 2 x A43 VLS modules for 32 Aster 15 missiles (with EMPAR PESA radar and LRR RAN-40L)
Trieste LHA (will replace Garibaldi LPH)
- will be only FFBNW for 2 x A50 modules for 16 Aster 15/30 modules (but will have, by origin, DBR AESA 4FF radar and new LRR Leonardo radar)
10 FREMM (5 in service and 5 on built)
- have/will have 14 x 76/62 Strales for Dart guided AA/AM ammu and 6 x 127/64 mm for Vulcano LR ammu (100/120 km)
PPA
- 16 planned (as vision about to 2035), 10 authorized by Parliament and 7 financed (with 3 more on option)
- only 5 (of 7 financed) PPA will be fitted eachone with 2 modules A50 for 16 Aster 15/30 missiles; 2 remaining will be only FFBNW
- all PPA will have 76/62 Strales for Dart guided AA/AM ammu (CIWS rules), 127/64 mm Vulcano LR ammu and 2 x NH90ASW/AW-101
- yes, all will have DBR AESA 4FF radar: but only 2 will have C and X band; 3 will have only C band, FFBNW X band, and 2 will have only X band but FFBNW C band.
and the Italian Navy seems not yet to be convinced of the goodness of the CAMM-ER...
Cavour CVL
- is armed with 2 x A43 VLS modules for 32 Aster 15 missiles (with EMPAR PESA radar and LRR RAN-40L)
Trieste LHA (will replace Garibaldi LPH)
- will be only FFBNW for 2 x A50 modules for 16 Aster 15/30 modules (but will have, by origin, DBR AESA 4FF radar and new LRR Leonardo radar)
10 FREMM (5 in service and 5 on built)
- have/will have 14 x 76/62 Strales for Dart guided AA/AM ammu and 6 x 127/64 mm for Vulcano LR ammu (100/120 km)
PPA
- 16 planned (as vision about to 2035), 10 authorized by Parliament and 7 financed (with 3 more on option)
- only 5 (of 7 financed) PPA will be fitted eachone with 2 modules A50 for 16 Aster 15/30 missiles; 2 remaining will be only FFBNW
- all PPA will have 76/62 Strales for Dart guided AA/AM ammu (CIWS rules), 127/64 mm Vulcano LR ammu and 2 x NH90ASW/AW-101
- yes, all will have DBR AESA 4FF radar: but only 2 will have C and X band; 3 will have only C band, FFBNW X band, and 2 will have only X band but FFBNW C band.
and the Italian Navy seems not yet to be convinced of the goodness of the CAMM-ER...
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
New renderings and official news from new Fincantieri web-site:
PPA:
https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... essel-ppa/
LHA "Trieste":
https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... irole-lhd/
LSS "Vulcano"
https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... ssels/lss/
USSP (Submarine Rescue Ship, to replace ITS Anteo):
https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... ort-ships/
PPA:
https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... essel-ppa/
LHA "Trieste":
https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... irole-lhd/
LSS "Vulcano"
https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... ssels/lss/
USSP (Submarine Rescue Ship, to replace ITS Anteo):
https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... ort-ships/
Re: Italian Armed Forces
eagle spotters wrote:New renderings and official news from new Fincantieri web-site:
PPA:
https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... essel-ppa/
LHA "Trieste":
https://www.fincantieri.com/en/products ... irole-lhd/
Very nice. Me like it.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Italian Armed Forces
"Trieste" a twin island vessel I see ,I wonder how many other vessels we will see the same idea on ? ,the uk had a few firsts on carrier type vessels thru the years tbh ,shame the rest of the world showing us how to build vessels in adequate numbers to be useful or adventurous enough designs for general escort fleet and at least they arm them enough
Re: Italian Armed Forces
Pretty much every "first", I think, from first concept onwards. Through decks, hangars, aircraft lifts, offset tower, angled flight deck, arrestor gear, landing light systems, catapults. Not sure about the ski jump, but I think that was RN as wellinch wrote:the uk had a few firsts on carrier type vessels thru the years tbh
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
Ski Jump was all RN.Caribbean wrote:Pretty much every "first", I think, from first concept onwards. Through decks, hangars, aircraft lifts, offset tower, angled flight deck, arrestor gear, landing light systems, catapults. Not sure about the ski jump, but I think that was RN as well
Pretty much the only innovation that isn't is nuclear power. It will be interesting to see if the USN looks closely at the Bedford array as well.
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
FREMM(IT)-GP 9 = "Spartaco Schergat"
FREMM(IT)-GP 10 = "Emilio Bianchi"
could be...
with:
- new conformal IFF
- new AESA 3D 4FF radar, to replace MFRA AESA 3D radar (Kronos Grand NV)
- SLAT ASW decoy launching system
...
FREMM(IT)-GP 10 = "Emilio Bianchi"
could be...
with:
- new conformal IFF
- new AESA 3D 4FF radar, to replace MFRA AESA 3D radar (Kronos Grand NV)
- SLAT ASW decoy launching system
...
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
12 december 2016: a milestone for Italian Air Force and for JSF program
First two F-35A (built in Italy, to Cameri FACO) delivered to 13° Gruppo (Group), 32° Stormo (Wing) of Italian Air Force, to Amendola Air Base:
First two F-35A (built in Italy, to Cameri FACO) delivered to 13° Gruppo (Group), 32° Stormo (Wing) of Italian Air Force, to Amendola Air Base:
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Re: Italian Armed Forces
18.11.2016, Sigonella Air Base, 41° Stormo (wing):
Italian Air Force received first two (of four) MPA, Leonardo P72A (ATR72-600MP):
http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/atr-72mp
Italian Air Force received first two (of four) MPA, Leonardo P72A (ATR72-600MP):
http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/atr-72mp
Re: Italian Armed Forces
I wonder, if the Italians have took Spartan as basis for MPA conversion, would they get better aircraft?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Italian Armed Forces
Are the French looking to replace the Atlantique any time soon? If they are then an MPA based on a joint French-Italian aircraft might be more of a contender.abc123 wrote:I wonder, if the Italians have took Spartan as basis for MPA conversion, would they get better aircraft?