Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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ArmChairCivvy wrote:Mattis has called a meeting of C-ISIL (Global Coalition to Counter ISIL) for today (in Brussels).
- perhaps changing from 2nd gear to 4th, skipping one in between?
Worldaffairsjournal summary had no mention (but look at the bolded part):

" Mattis said NATO needed "negotiate from a position of strength" as he called for stepped up military spending.

That prompted a terse reply from Russia's Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu. "Attempts to build a dialogue with Russia from a position of strength would be futile," he was quoted as saying by TASS news agency.

Mattis shot back: "I have no need to respond to the Russian statement at all. NATO has always stood for military strength and protection of the democracies and the freedoms we intend to pass on to our children."

The back-and-forth came even as U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov met in Germany, and U.S. Marine General Joseph Dunford, the top U.S. military officer, met Chief of the Russian General Staff Valery Gerasimov in Azerbaijan."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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UAE press knows more about UK plans down there than what is circulated back in the UK:

"The UK is returning to a permanent presence to the Gulf, with the opening last year of its first permanent naval base in the Middle East since 1967, in Bahrain.

"It will be an opportunity to consider a base for a destroyer or a frigate in the region rather than rotate them the way we do at present," said Cmdre Will Warrender, deputy commander of the combined maritime forces.

"That is far more efficient and will also ensure a more permanent presence." It has also started developing a land training centre in Oman and permanent navy base in the country’s port of Duqm.

"We’re also in discussion with a regional country about how to enhance our air presence," Lt Gen Beckett said. "We also want to train more of our Gulf friends because it is beneficial for us but it is also capability development for our partners, including the UAE."

A strenuous two-week joint military exercise is planned between the UK and the UAE to train local land forces next month. "

OK, it is IDEX time down there; we get a lot of announcements timed to fit the defence expos held here
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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About as soon as POTUS was back from Hamburg (side talks) and the Bastille Day stop-over, the CIA prgrm for arming Syria rebels was halted (one can only wonder what other areas of the world got divvied up in the one hour to which there is no other witness than Putin;s interpreter?).

Washington Post has been taking stock:
" some thoughts gathered from U.S. and Syrian officials who have followed the CIA program closely.

●CIA support could have started earlier, in 2012, when extremists weren’t so powerful and there was still hope of building a moderate force. By 2013, when the program got rolling, the military opposition was dominated by jihadists and warlords.

●The United States could have given the rebels antiaircraft weapons, allowing them to protect rebel-held areas from Assad’s brutal bombing. The rebels trained with such weapons but could never use them on the battlefield.

●While negotiating the nuclear deal with Iran, the United States didn’t want to kill Iranians in Syria. And once Putin intervened, the United States avoided Russians. Those limits were prudent, but they neutered the U.S.-backed military operations.

●The United States didn’t have a political strategy[TO CREATE THE DESIRED END GAME] to match the CIA’s covert campaign. “There was no ‘there’ there, in terms of a clearly articulated national security objective and an accompanying strategy,” said Fred Hof, a former State Department official who has followed the Syria story closely. The American effort unintentionally “created massive divisions and rivalries instead of being used as a tool to unite disparate factions,” another former official said.

Contrast the sad demise of the CIA’s anti-Assad program in western Syria with the rampaging campaign against the Islamic State in the east[...] well-organized Syrian fighters are backed by U.S. warriors on the ground and planes in the sky. In this game, halfway is not the place to be.

The same article gives CIA's assessments in 2015, just before the Russian intervention, as the immediate likelihood of Assad coming tumbling down and no one at all in charge.
- so may be a good outcome for then, the intervention, as the efforts in East Ukraine were eased due to the need to redirect resources
- and for now? Iran more staunchly aligned with Russia in the region, whereas no one really knows where Turkey and Saudi Arabia stand
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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The Armchair Soldier wrote:UK Forces On Frontline Of Battle For Sinjar
British troops are involved on the frontline with Kurdish forces battling to retake Sinjar in northern Iraq from Islamic State.

US-led coalition airstrikes have been pounding IS-held areas in the town - directed by US and British special forces on the frontline, Kurdish Peshmerga commanders have told Sky News.
Read More: http://news.sky.com/story/1586223/uk-fo ... sf-twitter

Time to start to pack more rations onto Herkie birds in Akrotiri, as this time it will be (according to Turkish press) Turkey pushing into the Sinjar mountains (and Iran watching their back!):
"“The two military chiefs discussed the work that can be carried out and its diplomatic dimension,” he added.

“The work will continue. As you know, the PKK terror organization has a foot in Iran. It has always caused harm to Iran and to us. We work because we believe that if the two countries cooperate, we can get results in a much shorter period of time,” Erdoğan said.

He did not offer further details on the timing or scope of the operation, and did not say where the operation would be focused. Media reports have suggested that Bagheri proposed the launch of a joint operation against the PKK in northern Iraq’s Kandil and Sinjar regions."

This is just a continuation of Turkish attempts to chop up Kurdish territory into as many disconnected pieces as possible. And while our NATO ally is pressurising the Kurds from the North, the Syrian army is pushing in the South to clear the Baghdad highway
... no more expensive air freight, instead lorries straight through Tehran- Baghdad- S. Syria... and Hezbollah
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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Just as well we are (?) nowhere near S. syria as things will soon go "bang" there in a totally different way
- Bibi's back from the second time of seeing Putin (9 contacts, all levels counted)
- no results, says the far right
- normally no one would care about what they say, but:
This Liebermann becoming the Defence Minister made the Chief of Joint Staffs resign... because the Minister is an extremist (that the ever-so-mild Bibi needs, to keep his Gvmnt majority)

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Defens ... ria-503324
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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Have a look at the targeting on that Hellfire.

That was one precise shot given the proximity of a crowd.

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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Theresa May summons cabinet to decide Syria response
The prime minister will summon the cabinet on Thursday to discuss the government's response to the suspected chemical weapons attack in Syria.

Ministers will consider the options for backing military action threatened by the United States and its allies.

Theresa May is prepared to take action against the Assad regime in Syria without first seeking parliamentary consent, sources have told the BBC.
Read More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43733861

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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UK, US and France strike Syria

PM's speech:
This evening I have authorised British armed forces to conduct co-ordinated and targeted strikes to degrade the Syrian Regime’s chemical weapons capability and deter their use.

We are acting together with our American and French allies.

In Douma, last Saturday a chemical weapons attack killed up to 75 people, including young children, in circumstances of pure horror.

The fact of this attack should surprise no-one.

The Syrian Regime has a history of using chemical weapons against its own people in the most cruel and abhorrent way.

And a significant body of information including intelligence indicates the Syrian Regime is responsible for this latest attack.

This persistent pattern of behaviour must be stopped – not just to protect innocent people in Syria from the horrific deaths and casualties caused by chemical weapons but also because we cannot allow the erosion of the international norm that prevents the use of these weapons.

We have sought to use every possible diplomatic channel to achieve this.

But our efforts have been repeatedly thwarted. Even this week the Russians vetoed a Resolution at the UN Security Council which would have established an independent investigation into the Douma attack.

So there is no practicable alternative to the use of force to degrade and deter the use of chemical weapons by the Syrian Regime.

This is not about intervening in a civil war. It is not about regime change.

It is about a limited and targeted strike that does not further escalate tensions in the region and that does everything possible to prevent civilian casualties.

And while this action is specifically about deterring the Syrian Regime, it will also send a clear signal to anyone else who believes they can use chemical weapons with impunity.

At this time, my thoughts are with our brave British servicemen and women – and our French and American partners – who are carrying out their duty with the greatest professionalism.

The speed with which we are acting is essential in co-operating with our partners to alleviate further humanitarian suffering and to maintain the vital security of our operations.

This is the first time as Prime Minister that I have had to take the decision to commit our armed forces in combat – and it is not a decision I have taken lightly.

I have done so because I judge this action to be in Britain’s national interest.

We cannot allow the use of chemical weapons to become normalised – within Syria, on the streets of the UK, or anywhere else in our world.

We would have preferred an alternative path. But on this occasion there is none.

History teaches us that the international community must defend the global rules and standards that keep us all safe.

That is what our country has always done. And what we will continue to do.
- Rt Hon Theresa May MP, Prime Minister




Statement from Emmanuel Macron, President of the Republic of France.
(translation)
On Saturday, April 7, 2018, in Duma, dozens of men, women and children were massacred with chemical weapons, in total violation of international law and UN Security Council resolutions.

The facts and the responsibility of the Syrian regime are beyond doubt.

The red line set by France in May 2017 has been crossed. So I ordered the French armed forces to intervene tonight, as part of an international operation in coalition with the United States of America and the United Kingdom and directed against the clandestine chemical arsenal of the Syrian regime .

Our response has been limited to the capabilities of the Syrian regime for the production and use of chemical weapons.

We can not tolerate the trivialization of the use of chemical weapons, which is an immediate danger for the Syrian people and for our collective security. This is the meaning of the initiatives constantly put forward by France to the United Nations Security Council.

France and its partners will resume, as of today, their efforts at the United Nations to allow the establishment of an international mechanism of establishing responsibilities, to prevent impunity and to prevent any reluctance of recidivism of the Syrian regime.

Since May 2017, the priorities of France in Syria are constant: to end the fight against Daesh, to allow the access of the humanitarian aid to the civil populations, to initiate a collective dynamic to reach a political settlement of the conflict, so that Syria finally find peace, and ensure the stability of the region.

I will pursue these priorities with determination in the days and weeks to come.

In accordance with Article 35, paragraph 2, of the Constitution, the Parliament will be informed and a parliamentary debate will be organized, following this decision to intervene of our armed forces abroad.

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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I see I'm not the only one up late.

Hard to go to bed now, lot to watch developing.

Luke jones
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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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RetroSicotte wrote:I see I'm not the only one up late.

Hard to go to bed now, lot to watch developing.
No counter action from the Russians it seems????

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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From Defence One

Defense Secretary James Mattis told reporters at the Pentagon about an hour after Trump spoke: Last year’s strike involved 59 cruise missiles launched from Navy warships at a single site; tonight’s action included Navy cruise missiles and unspecified manned aircraft targeting “multiple sites” connected to the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons program.

“We chose these particular targets to mitigate the risks of civilian casualties,” Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. Joseph Dunford said. “We chose these targets because they were specifically associated with the Syrian chemical program.”

Mattis said said the strikes were not “directed at the Syrian regime” itself, adding that “Clearly the Assad regime did not get the message last year,” and “we urge responsible nations to condemn the Assad regime.”

Dunford said Syrian forces fired surface-to-air-missiles, but U.S. officials said there were no reported losses of American or coalition aircraft that took part in the strikes.

“Right now, we have no additional attacks planned,” Mattis said. “Right now, this is a one-time shot,” he said. “I believe that it sent a very strong message to dissuade [Assad], to deter him, from doing it again.”

Finally, Mattis said, “We fully expect a Russian disinformation campaign.”

Trump's earlier comment was added: "Russia must decide whether to continue on the dark path or (re?)join civilized nations"
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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Sites related to the Syrian chemical weapons program have been hit by US, French and British forces during several separate raids.

"The red line set by France in May 2017 has been crossed. So I ordered the French armed forces to intervene tonight, as part of an international operation in coalition with the United States of America and the United Kingdom and directed against the clandestine chemical arsenal of the Syrian regime", announced President Macron, via a statement accompanying a video showing the takeoff of Rafale armed with the SCALP cruise missile.

It was known that the multi-mission frigate (FREMM) "Aquitaine" was also in the eastern Mediterranean while an operation was planned to target the Syrian regime for its responsibility in the chemical attack against the city of Douma last April 7 . This ship has been joined by others of the same type.

Multimission frigates, accompanied by protection and support ships, have been deployed in the Mediterranean Sea. At the same time an air raid left early in the night from several air bases in France to reach the shores of Syria for a series of strikes against the Syrian program of chemical weapons.

This operation will have been the baptism of fire for the naval cruise missile (MdCN), implemented by the four FREMMs in service within the French Navy. These ships carry every 16 copies of this ammunition, developed by MBDA.

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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Frenchie wrote: This operation will have been the baptism of fire for the naval cruise missile (MdCN), implemented by the four FREMMs in service within the French Navy. These ships carry every 16 copies of this ammunition, developed by MBDA.
Well, the French indeed do have cruise missiles on their frigates. About Type 26, we shall see in about 10 years ( but I don't hold my breath )...
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…


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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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A further statement from Theresa May.

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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Luke jones wrote:No counter action from the Russians it seems????
It was a vaguely worded bluff. Past the rhetoric, it boiled down to "so long as you don't target us."

They were trying to appear strong from a position of weakness. As usual with Russia, it's all about spin and nonsense to try and "look strong."

Same reason they're firing out a dozen propaganda stories about how Syrians intercepted basically every single missile, and then half the missiles, and then 70% of the missiles. Same thing as when they shot down a civilian airliner. Russia's tactic in information war is to spam the airwaves with as many stories as possible, and relying on "useful idiots" to pick them up and start believing them/regurgitating them.

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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What have the french got to do with Op Shader?

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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downsizer wrote:What have the french got to do with Op Shader?
This thread concerns that conflict, the name is what the UK calls their part in it, but there's no sense in opening further topics discussing the exact same event for just a couple of tweets that help give a view on the events around the UK forces.

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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Four GR4 Tornado's from No. 31 Squadron (The Goldstars), each carry two Storm Shadow missiles, were supported by an RAF Voyager tanker.

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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RetroSicotte wrote:
downsizer wrote:What have the french got to do with Op Shader?
This thread concerns that conflict, the name is what the UK calls their part in it, but there's no sense in opening further topics discussing the exact same event for just a couple of tweets that help give a view on the events around the UK forces.
There is a French armed forces topic that the poster put the exact same post. Hence the question.

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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Sorry about my post ;)

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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Frenchie wrote:Sorry about my post ;)
No, no no no. he meant a post which I had earlier posted into this thread about the French involvemrnt in last night's airstrike, but which I have since removed. Admittedly, France is not part of Operation Shader, but I wanted to be fair to France and not ignore them for their involvement in last night's airstrike. Also, I didn't want to create a whole new Syria Chemical Weapons Airstrike thread because it was mostly a US strike anyway, and hopefully a one-off strike.

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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SKB wrote:
Frenchie wrote:Sorry about my post ;)
No, no no no. he meant a post which I had earlier posted into this thread about the French involvemrnt in last night's airstrike, but which I have since removed. Admittedly, France is not part of Operation Shader, but I wanted to be fair to France and not ignore them for their involvement in last night's airstrike. Also, I didn't want to create a whole new Syria Chemical Weapons Airstrike thread because it was mostly a US strike anyway, and hopefully a one-off strike.
Thank you for your explication SKB, thank you for thinking about France :thumbup:

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Re: Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

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downsizer wrote:What have the french got to do with Op Shader?
Kronenbourg was our go to drink once we were sick of Keo. A noteworthy contribution.

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