Gibraltar

Discuss current, historical or potential future deployments, as well the defence of the UK's overseas interests.
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GibMariner
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HMS Diamond & RFA Mounts Bay at Gibraltar:

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GibMariner
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RFA Mounts Bay, HMS Diamond and HMS Daring at Gibraltar.



There hasn't been that much pusser's grey in Gib in a while.

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I'd be very interested to hear from GibMariner, or anyone else with direct experience in Gibraltar, how Brexit (once it happens down the line) might impact UK deployments in Gibraltar. I'd like to think that we can increase our presence and be more robust in response to Spanish incursions once HMG no longer have to try to placate the Spanish in order to build alliances for internal EU level politics

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Rare sight of two Point-class ro-ro ships at Gibraltar today, Eddystone and Hartland Point:

SDL
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they're looking a bit well used there.

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GibMariner
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dmereifield wrote:I'd be very interested to hear from GibMariner, or anyone else with direct experience in Gibraltar, how Brexit (once it happens down the line) might impact UK deployments in Gibraltar. I'd like to think that we can increase our presence and be more robust in response to Spanish incursions once HMG no longer have to try to placate the Spanish in order to build alliances for internal EU level politics
Like with most of the Brexit debate, I don't think anyone can say with absolute certainty what will happen. Yours is one point of view, reasonable, perfectly valid and not an impossible scenario, but far from the only one.

The opposite point of view is that with Britain on the outside of the EU, it will be harder to counter the propaganda, lobbying and pressuring of other countries by Spain and for Britain to act as a check on Spanish ambitions from within the EU. It wouldn't be impossible for the UK to step up diplomatic efforts, but will the FCO bother? What will Spain demand in exchange for a favourable Brexit deal for the UK?

The NATO aspect also needs to be looked at - while Britain has and will retain significant influence within NATO, Spain is too. Spain has a deeply ingrained obsession with Gibraltar, they have a goal and will continue to work towards it. Will Britain change its rather passive policies which have existed for decades? Considering that the bans on military aircraft flying over Spanish airspace when going to/from Gib and the similar restrictions on military vessels visiting Spanish ports after visiting Gibraltar are still in place after over 40 years, there would have to be a rather radical change in policy and attitude.

Perhaps post-Brexit the UK will enhance its role within NATO and push for Gib to be better utilised by the alliance. In recent years, visits by warships from our NATO allies have all but ceased - except for the occasional US submarine (usually due to lack of alternative ports available). US Navy cruisers, destroyers and frigates were a familiar sight here until around 2010, since then I can't recall a single visit by a US warship. The Dutch, Canadians, Germans and Norwegians were all frequent visitors. The Germans now seem to deliberately snub Gib and visit Algeciras right across the bay instead.

Post-Brexit, one of the only certainties is that Spain will continue to exert pressure on Gibraltar, especially with regards to maritime issues. It seems fairly obvious that Britain needs to better defend Gib. I doubt we'd see a return of the Gibraltar guard ship of the 60s-80s (which wouldn't be justified, especially considering the small and overstretched escort fleet), but perhaps more frequent visits and training exercises in the area aren't unreasonable. Replacing the Scimitar-class patrol boats of the RN Gib Sqn with a couple of more capable vessels (and the crew to operate both of them) shouldn't exactly break the bank either. If Britain makes greater commitments to NATO, it could well mean more frequent deployments to the Med, but indications are that the RN will continue to face the same problems for years to come.

The fact that the MOD has let go of a lot of land and facilities here also needs to be taken into consideration. Gone are the days of the Springtrain, NATO Open/Closed Gate exercises - they simply couldn't be supported. SD Northern River has spent the last few days switching berths & going out to sea to allow destroyers and the ro-ros to dock, for example.

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Top general briefed on Rock’s military role

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Lieutenant General Sir Chris Deverell visited Gibraltar on Wednesday for the first time since his appointment as Commander of Joint Forces Command.

The Secretary of State for Defence announced General Deverell’s appointment in January and he succeeded General Sir Richard Lawson Barrons in April.

Summarising the visit, Sir Chris said: “I’ve had a fascinating, informative and enjoyable visit to Gibraltar. What a great place. The excellent contribution to UK and Gibraltar Defence and Security made by British Forces Gibraltar was very plain for me to see.”
“I look forward already to coming back soon and have every confidence that we can deal with any challenges ahead.”

His challenging schedule only permitted a short stay in Gibraltar but during his visit he managed to various units as well as personally briefing local defence personnel on the MOD’s continuing commitment to Gibraltar’s sovereignty and her ongoing strategic value as a mounting base for other operations.

Joint Forces Command provides the foundation and supporting framework for successful operations by ensuring joint capabilities like medical services, training, intelligence, information systems and cyber operations, are developed and managed effectively and efficiently.
It also provides the command and control for overseas Defence operations and British Forces Gibraltar is one of Joint Forces Command’s Permanent Joint Operating Bases.
http://chronicle.gi/2016/09/top-general ... tary-role/

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Post by dmereifield »

GibMariner, thanks for the comprehensive and considered response.

The picture you paint is indeed another possibility, however, I am hopeful that things will be more positive.

Spain will continue to cause trouble on the border and in Gibraltarian waters, perhaps even more so. But I do not believe there is any possibility of Spain being able to use the Brexit negotiations to gain any degree of soverignty or territory or to erode the rights of Gibraltar, its people or British interests. Such an outcome would be political suicide. Not just for May, but also for Boris and the rest of the Brexiteers.

Boris still has his eye on being PM and conceding any ground on Gibraltar on his watch as Foreign Secretary would halt his ambitions. For this reason, post Brexit, the FCO would not want to appear soft in the face of Spanish aggression.

Further, May does not want to give the impression that the UK is retreating from the world. Quite the opposite impression is desired and so I wouldn't be surprised to see increased British activity in the Med and perhaps encouragement of our allies to utilise Gibraltar more frequently.

I hope at least

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Additionally, conceeding any ground would set a bad precedent for the Falklands

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Gibraltar: Spain:Written question - 44598

Asked by Craig Whittaker(Calder Valley)
To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, what discussions he has had with his Spanish counterparts on recent incursions by Spanish vessels into British Territorial Waters around Gibraltar.
Answered by: Sir Alan Duncan
The Foreign Secretary, my Rt Hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Mr Johnson) has made clear publicly that the UK will continue to protect and promote Gibraltar’s interests. This includes challenging and protesting against all incursions into British Gibraltar Territorial Waters. The Foreign Secretary has also reaffirmed our sovereignty assurances to Gibraltar never to enter into arrangements under which the people of Gibraltar would pass under the sovereignty of another State against their wishes, nor to enter into a process of sovereignty negotiations with which Gibraltar is not content.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... -02/44598/


Defence: Gibraltar:Written question - 45163

Asked by Andrew Rosindell(Romford)
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, what recent assessment he has made of the strategic military importance of Gibraltar to the UK.
Answered by: Mike Penning
The UK continually monitors our defence presence in Gibraltar and routinely adjusts our force posture and resources as appropriate. Gibraltar is, and will remain a key centre for the UK's Defence interests and the UK Government takes its responsibility for protecting the sovereignty of Gibraltar very seriously. The UK maintains a permanent military presence in Gibraltar in recognition of its enduring geo-strategic importance as the gateway to the Mediterranean, assuring maritime transit routes and maintaining access to Cyprus and the Suez Canal in support of UK national interests.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... -06/45163/

Conservative MP Bob Stewart asks the MOD to consider basing one of the Type 26 "offshore patrol vessels" in Gibraltar: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/ ... 1.7#g592.6

:lol: :lol:

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Royal Navy video of SPAG training in Gib in June:


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Battle Of Britain Flypast On Saturday
There will be an RAF Hawk Flypast on the evening of Saturday 17 September to commemorate the 76th Anniversary of the Battle of Britain.

Two Hawks from 100 Squadron will arrive at RAF Gibraltar on Friday 16 September at 8.45 pm.

One of the Hawks will conduct the Flypast at RAF Gibraltar at 7.30 pm on Saturday evening, whilst the second Hawk will provide the backdrop to a formal dinner evening at RAF Gibraltar where the guest of honour will be His Excellency, The Governor and Commander in Chief Gibraltar, Lieutenant General Edward Davis CB, CBE.
http://www.yourgibraltartv.com/society/ ... n-saturday

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HMS Triumph arrived today:


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Battle of Britain commemorations on the Rock over the weekend.
Royal Gibraltar Regiment band:


Single RAF Hawk flypast:

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HMS Bulwark in Gibraltar:




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Chinook and Merlin from HMS Ocean flew around Gibraltar over the weekend:






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Royal Engineers continue to assist in clearing up the Northern Defences: https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/new/sites/ ... 2-2016.pdf
Sunday 25th September 2016 saw the Royal Engineers deployed once again at the Queens Lines.
This has been the third time this year that the descendants of the Royal Artificer Corps have carried out clearing up operations in the Northern Defences.
As part of Her Majesty’s Government’s commitment in recovering this unique historical site,
works have continued during the summer months in the area of Forbes Battery and the Queens Lines located to the east and overlooking Laguna estate.
Works have focused in clearing up debris and vegetation along Queens Lines and the
Entrenchment Wall Steps in Prince’s Lines, which have been damaging and concealing the
monument. This exercise has exposed a series of mortar positions and loop holes which range
from the 18th century to the WWII. This has assisted in highlighting the importance that the
Northern Defences has had in the defence of Gibraltar.
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HMS Scimitar Helps Raise Over £10,000 For Charity
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HMS Scimitar, one of Gibraltar Squadron’s fast patrol boats, has been stretching her legs outside of her normal patrols around British Gibraltar Territorial Waters with a visit to the Moroccan port of Smir.

Not to be outdone by their First Patrol Boat Squadron counterparts at the America’s World Cup in Portsmouth HMS Scimitar, in the company of 48 yachts, sailed as the official escort for the 2016 Ocean Village/Boatshed Gibraltar Morocco Yacht Rally. The yachts, a record number since the rally was first held in 2000, took part in the charity race from ‘the Rock’ to the north-African port to raise money for the Gibraltar Red Cross, successfully raising £10,591.33 in total.

Scimitar was the first Royal Navy warship ever to visit Smir and was welcomed alongside by the Naval Regional Commander. The 28 nautical mile race was complete within a few hours. Scimitar’s Ship’s Company then headed ashore to see the souks and souvenirs available in Tetouan.

Commanding Officer Lt James Bradshaw RN who took Command in March said: “This was my first foreign run ashore in Scimitar and it was great to be part of an event that raised so much money for charity. The yacht’s crews had a great time and gave us a really warm welcome once we were all safety alongside.”
http://www.yourgibraltartv.com/charity/ ... or-charity

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Commander Joint Forces Command Visits RN Gib Squadron

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The 4-star Commander of Joint Forces Command (ComJFC), General Sir Chris Deverell KCB MBE ADC, included a visit to HMS Scimitar and the Royal Navy Gibraltar Squadron (RNGS) as part of his wider tour of JFC assets in Gibraltar.

General Deverall took command of Joint Forces Command in April this year. The 4* Headquarters provides the foundation and supporting framework for successful operations by ensuring joint capabilities, like medical services, training, intelligence, information systems and cyber operations, are developed and managed. It also provides the command and control for overseas Defence operations and British Forces Gibraltar is one of the JFC’s Permanent Joint Operating Bases.

Although General Deverell had very little time available to him for the visit, he was able to call on the Chief Minister of Gibraltar and His Excellency the Governor as well as visiting RAF Gibraltar. The visit coincided with a busy period when the Forward Mounting Base was also hosting Royal Fleet Auxillary vessel Mounts Bay, two Type-45 destroyers – HMS Daring and HMS Diamond – and the Dutch Navy submarine HNLMS Bruinvis.

During the visit to the RNGS the General was given the opportunity to see Scimitar at sea conducting the routine daily maritime security operations that support their mission to demonstrate sovereignty. He also observed HMS Diamond’s Boarding Team conducting training in Gibraltar’s waters prior to her deployment into the Mediterranean. Lt James Bradshaw RN, Scimitar’s Commanding Officer said: “It was an honour to welcome Generall Deverell to Gibraltar Squadron and provide him with an insight of front-line Fast Patrol Boat operations in the Royal Navy”.

He added: “After a discussion on the challenges of demonstrating sovereignty of Gibraltar we were please to take him to sea for a Sovereignty patrol where he could witness at first hand the challenging environment in which we operate.”

The General found his visit very informative and said: “I saw the personnel responsible for patrolling the waters off Gibraltar in action. It provided valuable context and did a lot to improve my understanding of their capabilities and the demands they face.”
http://www.yourgibraltartv.com/society/ ... b-squadron

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Compulsory MoD redundancies ‘a red line’ for Picardo
The Gibraltar Government will not accept compulsory redundancies at the Ministry of Defence in Gibraltar, Chief Minister Fabian Picardo said yesterday.

Mr Picardo was reflecting on MoD plans to reduce its locally-employed civilian workforce against the background of wider cuts across the UK’s military infrastructure worldwide.

Speaking on GBC radio as part of an Open Democracy programme, Mr Picardo said he had written to the UK Prime Minister immediately after the referendum vote last June 23 and, as a result of that, “the whole issue was paused” for three months.

“I know that the MoD now want to continue with the process of implementing a new operating model,” he told GBC.

“I don’t want to see any job be taken out of the Gibraltar economy,” he said.

“What certainly the Government of Gibraltar would not accept is any compulsory redundancies.”

“That would be a real red line for us where we would find ourselves at odds with the Ministry of Defence.”

The MoD has yet to confirm any plans to reduce its workforce here, although an announcement is expected in the coming days.
http://chronicle.gi/2016/09/compulsory- ... r-picardo/

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Royal Gibraltar Regiment complete infantry training
Two soldiers from the Royal Gibraltar Regiment have recently completed their Combat Infantryman’s course after a challenging 28 weeks of education and training.

Private William Dodd and Private Alexander Davis both completed the Combat Infantryman’s Course in North Yorkshire and passed out on 16 September as part of Prince of Wales Division 4 Platoon, and were proudly watched by their parents and Captain Jon Roberts from the Royal Gibraltar Regiment.

The Infantry Training Centre is located in Catterick Garrison, North Yorkshire. All recruits joining the infantry undertake Infantry training here, consisting of Field-craft, Skill at Arms, Fitness training, Qualities of a soldier, Military knowledge, Driving, Battlefield casualty drills, Individual health and education.
http://chronicle.gi/2016/09/royal-gibra ... -training/

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Gib listening post led to terror arrests – report
Hi-tech listening posts in Gibraltar and Cyprus operated by GCHQ, the UK’s signals intelligence organisation, identified “at least three” active Islamic State cells in Spain and Germany, it was claimed yesterday.

The UK tabloid newspaper The Mirror reported that 50 people with suspected links to IS had been seized in Europe and North Africa over the last three months thanks to British intelligence.

They included five suspects arrested last week by police in Spain, Belgium and Germany, the newspaper said.

This is the latest in a string of articles by The Mirror claiming that signals intelligence gathered from Gibraltar and Cyprus has been used to target suspected terrorists.

The British Government would neither confirm nor deny the reports.

““We do not comment on intelligence matters,” a Foreign Office spokesman told the Chronicle.
http://chronicle.gi/2016/09/gib-listeni ... ts-report/

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MOD new operating model reduces its workforce by 85
The Ministry of Defence yesterday set out a new operating model for British Forces Gibraltar including reductions totalling around 85 personnel.

In a statement the MoD stated that over the past 20 months one of the British Forces Command’s priorities had been to consider how to put it onto an “affordable” and “sustainable” footing.

To this end a “Transformation Team” has been working across the whole Command to design an Operating Model that meets the needs of Defence now and for the future, the MoD said.

Central to the new Operating Model is a proposed new organisational structure.

According to the MoD the Chief Minister, Fabian Picardo, has been informed of the proposal and formal consultation with Trades Unions have begun.
The plans incorporate reductions in some areas and new posts in others, and include further reductions in military and UKBC numbers.

“The structure is designed to be efficient, effective and provide professional flexible working across the estate in a way that is affordable and sustainable.”

Locally Employed Civilian reductions are expected to be around 85 and to be achieved by voluntary means, the MoD added.
http://chronicle.gi/2016/10/mod-new-ope ... rce-by-85/

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Britain issues firm response to Spain at UN
The British Government reaffirmed its double-lock sovereignty commitment to Gibraltar on two separate occasions during a ‘right of reply’ to Spain’s intervention at the UN Fourth Committee in New York on Tuesday.

Speaking at the end of the session, ambassador Peter Wilson, the UK’s deputy permanent representative at the UN, also said the Trilateral Forum for Dialogue remained “ the most credible, constructive and practical means” of strengthening relations between the UK, Spain and Gibraltar.

And he insisted that Gibraltar must participate “in its own right” in any process of dialogue and that this was “non negotiable”.

Mr Wilson was responding to a speech by Spanish ambassador Román Oyarzun Marchesi, Spain’s permanent representative at the UN, who had earlier outlined a formal proposal to the UK for dialogue on joint sovereignty.

The response left no doubt that the UK and Spain are poles apart in their respective positions on Gibraltar, making a consensus decision at this year’s UN session increasingly unlikely.

Whereas Spain is intent on pushing for bilateral talks and joint sovereignty, Britain remains steadfast in its double-lock commitment that it will never change or discuss Gibraltar’s sovereignty against the wishes of the Gibraltarians.

Mr Wilson underscored that point not just once but twice during his intervention, adding that Gibraltarians enjoyed the right of self-determination and a modern, mature relationship with the UK.

“The Government of the United Kingdom restates its longstanding commitment to the people of Gibraltar that it will not enter into arrangements under which the people of Gibraltar would pass under the sovereignty of another State against their freely and democratically expressed wishes,” he said.

“The United Kingdom also confirms that it will not enter into a process of sovereignty negotiations with which Gibraltar is not content.”

“The United Kingdom reaffirms its commitment to safeguard Gibraltar, its people and its economy.”

A few minutes later, the British ambassador underlined the same point again as he told the UN that Britain was committed to “fully involving” Gibraltar in the process of leaving the EU.

That will have rankled with Spain, which had sought the support of EU countries to keep Gibraltar outside the Brexit negotiations.

“The United Kingdom’s vote to leave the European Union does not change our unwavering commitment to respecting Gibraltar’s wishes on sovereignty,” Mr Wilson told the Fourth Committee.

“As I have already said, we will not enter into arrangements under which the people of Gibraltar would pass under the sovereignty of another State against their freely and democratically expressed wishes.”

“Nor will the United Kingdom enter into a process of sovereignty negotiations with which Gibraltar is not content.”
http://chronicle.gi/2016/10/britain-iss ... ain-at-un/

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