USA Armed Forces

[Jdam]

Pentagon Ponders Canceling Last Zumwalt Destroyer

(Bloomberg) — Pentagon officials are weighing whether to cancel the last of three ships in General Dynamics Corp.’s $22 billion program to build new destroyers even though the vessel is already under construction.

Canceling the USS Lyndon B. Johnson, a Zumwalt-class destroyer, is a topic that’s “to be reviewed in the next few weeks” by teams formed by the Pentagon’s independent cost- assessment office, according to a Defense Department briefing document dated Aug. 25. Two officials familiar with the issue confirmed that cancellation discussions are under way although no decision has been made.

Read More: http://gcaptain.com/pentagon-ponders-ca ... flA4d9VhBd

Is the $22 billion what it would have taken to build all 32 ships that were originally planned?

[seaspear]

The four Burke class destroyers forward-deployed to Rota in Spain for the Mediterranean BMD patrol are getting an upgrade to their point-defense capability with the installation of SeaRAM. The Rota-based destroyers all have an older Aegis BMD baseline which requires the combat system to be switched between Ballistic Missile Defense and Air Defense modes, leaving them vulnerable to one threat while configured for the other. Baseline 9 eliminates this restriction, but sequestration and generally depressed budgets mean older ships may not get the upgrade for some time, if ever. So SeaRAM was picked as a means to give those hulls some simultaneous engagement capability.

SeaRAM marries the radar and electro-optical targeting system of the Phalanx 1B with the RAM missile. So while the ship's combat system and main radar, SPY-1D, is busy in BMD mode the SeaRAM mount can detect, track, and engage threats on its own. Upgrading an older Aegis destroyer to baseline 9, which involves stripping out obsolete computers and CIC consoles and replacing them with modern equipment, requires a refit lasting about 78 weeks and costing about $183.8 million (2014 dollars). Adding SeaRAM, by contrast, will cost a fraction of that amount and will happen much faster. USS Porter (DDG-78) and USS Carney (DDG-64) will each get the upgrade in FY2016, which begins October 1st, and Porter will be back at sea by November.

Isnt though Searam limited in threats it can meet, unlike the Essm , certainly Japan has upgraded its destroyers to the dual capability without budget measures

[SKB]

$22 Billion for a ship built with a balsa wood superstructure...

[Halidon]

Seaspear, it still costs the JMSDF to upgrade their BMD fleet. The main difference is that the USN has quite a few more hulls to upgrade.

And noone will dispute that even Block II RAM is a fair distance from ESSM, but this a very affordable solution for giving those hulls some additional capability until the funds for the full upgrade (hopefully) becomes available.

$22 Billion for a ship built with a balsa wood superstructure...

Yeah, no. The bottom 3levels of the deckhouse are steel, the top is composite. The infamous "balsa wood" is used as a form to lay the composite onto, but after it's been cured the composite is the structural material.

And the $22b is program cost for 3, after being truncated down from 30. At a full 30 the average cost would have probably cost in the $3-4b range depending on other factors.

[ArmChairCivvy]

That makes the possibility to quad-pack Seaceptor into existing tubes, without the need for new radars etc. due to its active guidance, sound like an elegant solution... which it is.

Shame about BDM: even if the T45 radars were capable of it, the missile is still on the drawing board (with the extra booster required; and when it becomes available, to make it operational will require silo/ tube change).

[ArmChairCivvy]

Though this post http://breakingdefense.com/2015/09/john ... i=22167973
nominally is... about a nomination, it really summarises in a crisp way the issues the (as such well-ordered) USN ship (&boat) building prgrm is facing.

[shark bait]

Had to post this image, I am amazed that it is inst a render!

[Halidon]

Officially Official, the USN will begin refitting Burke class destroyers with Hybrid drive next year.

Next year the Navy will begin installing a hybrid electric drive (HED) system on 34 Flight IIA Arleigh Burke guided missile destroyers in a bid to lower the fuel costs of the ships, Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) told USNI News in a statement.
The system, which will marry an electric motor to the ships’ main reduction gear to drive the ship at low speeds, promises to save the service thousands of barrels of fuel in over a ship’s deployment.

This earlier article from DiD explains the HED a bit better:

Right now, DDG-51 destroyers are fielded with a ship service electrical system, and an independent main propulsion system of LM2500 gas turbines that are tied to a mechanical drive through the Main Reduction Gear assembly. Each shaft is tied to 2 LM2500 gas turbines (GTMs), which have just 2 speeds: off, and on. Another 3 ship service turbine-generators (GTGs) provide electrical power, with the 3rd designed as a redundant back-up. Using this mechanical arrangement, current DDG-51 Flight IIA ships have a reported total power output of 7.5 MW, and end up using too much effort from their LM2500 gas turbines for propulsion at low speeds.

During underway operations under 15 knots, in low-threat areas, 2 engines are typically on line: a GTM with a trail shaft, and a smaller GTG for basic power to the ship, navigation radars etc. Speed changes up to 15-18 knots are controlled by varying propeller pitch, and are independent of the LM2500 GTM. For more electricity, another GTG generator can be brought online to power the main SPY-1 radar if needed.

At low speeds, Hybrid Electric Drives would allow ships to take the GTM offline, and rely on 1-2 smaller GTGs for both propulsion and power, using less fuel and offering more power flexibility. Ships could also be designed with fixed-pitch propellers, which are quieter than variable-pitch blades.

This will also likely be included in new Burke class destroyers as they continue to come off the line in future.

[arfah]

................

[desertswo]

Officially Official, the USN will begin refitting Burke class destroyers with Hybrid drive next year.

Next year the Navy will begin installing a hybrid electric drive (HED) system on 34 Flight IIA Arleigh Burke guided missile destroyers in a bid to lower the fuel costs of the ships, Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) told USNI News in a statement.
The system, which will marry an electric motor to the ships’ main reduction gear to drive the ship at low speeds, promises to save the service thousands of barrels of fuel in over a ship’s deployment.

This earlier article from DiD explains the HED a bit better:

Right now, DDG-51 destroyers are fielded with a ship service electrical system, and an independent main propulsion system of LM2500 gas turbines that are tied to a mechanical drive through the Main Reduction Gear assembly. Each shaft is tied to 2 LM2500 gas turbines (GTMs), which have just 2 speeds: off, and on. Another 3 ship service turbine-generators (GTGs) provide electrical power, with the 3rd designed as a redundant back-up. Using this mechanical arrangement, current DDG-51 Flight IIA ships have a reported total power output of 7.5 MW, and end up using too much effort from their LM2500 gas turbines for propulsion at low speeds.

During underway operations under 15 knots, in low-threat areas, 2 engines are typically on line: a GTM with a trail shaft, and a smaller GTG for basic power to the ship, navigation radars etc. Speed changes up to 15-18 knots are controlled by varying propeller pitch, and are independent of the LM2500 GTM. For more electricity, another GTG generator can be brought online to power the main SPY-1 radar if needed.

At low speeds, Hybrid Electric Drives would allow ships to take the GTM offline, and rely on 1-2 smaller GTGs for both propulsion and power, using less fuel and offering more power flexibility. Ships could also be designed with fixed-pitch propellers, which are quieter than variable-pitch blades.

This will also likely be included in new Burke class destroyers as they continue to come off the line in future.

About freaking time. They've only been talking about various CO-This or That propulsion/electrical production/distribution systems since USS Spruance was launched; including something I mentioned elsewhere here, using waste heat from either/or LM2500 Main Engines or Allison 501K-17 (same basic engine found on the E-2C/D and other assorted turbo-prop driven aircraft) SSGTG engines to generate steam to drive either an electrical generator , or coupled to the main red gear via the same sort of clutch-brake assembly that LM2500 powered ships of the DD-963/CG-47/DDG-51 class ships all used (FFG-7s used a different concept based on an overrunning clutch not much different from your Briggs and Stratton driven lawnmower). This is a bold move from an engineering community as hide bound and set in its ways as we old 1200 PSI steam guys were accused of being.

Also, fuel savings isn't the only reason for the HED. The other reason also has three initials: AIP.

[Halidon]

Yeah I'm a big believer in this refit, just a good solid upgrade all-around. The waste heat idea hasn't gone away, though the most recent take on it i can recall was working with thermoelectric direct heat-to-power instead of steam.

[xav]

DARPA’s Towed Airborne Lift of Naval Systems (TALONS) Concept Tested at Sea

DARPA’s Towed Airborne Lift of Naval Systems (TALONS) research effort recently demonstrated a prototype of a low-cost, fully automated parafoil system designed to extend maritime vessels’ long-distance communications and improve their domain awareness. Towed behind boats or ships, TALONS could carry intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance and communications payloads of up to 150 pounds between 500 and 1,500 feet in altitude—many times higher than current ships’ masts—and greatly extend the equipment’s range and effectiveness.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=3126

[ArmChairCivvy]

payloads of up to 150 pounds

The article does not say whether the cable for towing provides just tethering, or also a power feed. 75 kg would be eaten up just by having a usable sensor, so such an enhancement would be a make-or-break for the (claimed) persistence. On the other hand, they are still at the stage of proving the launching, altitude, stability and recovery, so one step at a time.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Now it is a fact that US Cavalry in Europe will be upgunned:
"the report draws a line between upgunning 81 vehicles of the Europe-based 2nd Cavalry Regiment and an open-ended overhaul of the entire Stryker fleet worldwide. Congress is eager to accelerate the first but distinctly uneasy about the second. The $411 million in “lethality upgrades” for Europe come on top"
- but the same report (to the Congress) questions value for money by starting to upgrade those Strykers that do not have the V-bottom already: $ 4.5m per piece!?

[Tiny Toy]

Raytheon is working on using Excalibur smart munitions on surface vessels:

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articl ... libur.html

No confirmation from USN.

[ArmChairCivvy]

BAE is working in the other direction, bringing what they have at sea for use in normal artillery (have posted about it on TD).

However, this one is in use
and the second test, against a sea skimmer flying 10m above the waves is quite impressive.

BAHH! you will have to type the link in, eliminating all spaces:
liveleak .com /view?i =e15_1444225945

[GastonGlocker]

ATHENA- laser reaching production: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/10/09/ ... ction.html

[SKB]

F-35C makes tailhook arrest landing on Dwight D Eisenhower

[GastonGlocker]

MK 320 40mm Pike hand held guided missile test: http://www.defenseworld.net/news/14300/ ... _Munitions

[arfah]

..................

[ArmChairCivvy]

Right on cue:
http://breakingdefense.com/2015/10/back ... i=22827599
Pull a drone out of your backpack, then fire Pike off the top of your arm (even though it is really meant for the under-the-barrell 40mm grenade launcher... and this is not sci-fi

[ArmChairCivvy]

Whereas the US Army Trainng & Doctrine Command has noted that not all armies focus on fighting bush wars (breakingdefence report for the AUSA conference):
"Nor do the Russians use their drones the way Americans do, for prolonged surveillance and the occasional precision strike. Instead, the Ukrainians have learned, the hard way, that when they see certain kinds of Russian UAV overhead, an all-out barrage will follow.

The Ukrainians report that “when they see certain type UAVs, they know in the next 10-15 minutes, there’re going to be rockets landing on top of them,” Hodges said. This isn’t precision fire, but heavy bombardment. “It shreds light-skinned armored vehicles,” Hodges said, citing studies by Potomac Foundation president Phillip Karber, who’s extensively visited the Ukrainian battlefront.

Russian cannon and rocket artillery causes 85 percent of Ukrainian casualties, Karber told the AUSA conference, his slides showing columns of burnt-out transports and rows of body bags. The Russians use scatterable submunitions that Western nations have renounced for doing too much collateral damage, he said. They employ thermobaric weapons that create enormous fires. They have precision weapons that target the thinly armored tops of armored vehicles.

“In a three minute period… a Russian fire strike wiped out two mechanized battalions with a combination of top-attack munitions and thermobaric warheads,” Karber said. Western militaries need to start planning for massive casualties again, he warned."

Who this Hodges is is left unclear as his comments are mixed in with those from Gen. David Perkins (of the said Command)

[GastonGlocker]

Raytheon Pike. That could improve the lethality of even the lightest armed convoy.

Combined with drones such as desert hawk may also lessen the need for hell-gunships.

Concurs. Definitely a force multiplier for light fighters. Paratroopers holding a bridge for example. Even static defense of LSAs....counter-RPG team capabilities? Top-down attack for anti-armor?

[GastonGlocker]

Whereas the US Army Trainng & Doctrine Command has noted that not all armies focus on fighting bush wars (breakingdefence report for the AUSA conference)
.
.
.
“In a three minute period… a Russian fire strike wiped out two mechanized battalions with a combination of top-attack munitions and thermobaric warheads,” Karber said. Western militaries need to start planning for massive casualties again, he warned."
(of the said Command)

Antidotes: Heavy armor, Ground attack AC, Air dominance for top cover, counter-battery, ADA for drones?

[ArmChairCivvy]

Yep. all of those, plus sensible dispersal.

There were opinion pieces within Ukraine (following the "incident") that Soviet-era generals (of theirs) had been complicit in what happened by parking the said formations in a "wagon-train like" tight laager formations, before pushing on to where ever they were to go next.