UK Mobile Fires Platform

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
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Tempest414
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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by Tempest414 »

I would still like to see MRV(P) and Boxer Brimstone launcher system with this being upgraded to Spear latter this should be more than possible now given we have got a system up and running for Ukraine

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by SW1 »

Tempest414 wrote: 19 Jun 2022, 09:47 I would still like to see MRV(P) and Boxer Brimstone launcher system with this being upgraded to Spear latter this should be more than possible now given we have got a system up and running for Ukraine
Would agree there has been a 6 cell launcher shown in the past for ugv and 4x4s. Would very much like to see it be a launcher than can fire not just brimstone but things like the hero loitering munitions as well.
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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by Lord Jim »

One of many things I would like to see is any successor to Extractor be a weapon system that is embedded in our Infantry and Recce units rather than being part of the Royal Artillery's inventory. Any weapon system chosen must also be modular enabling tits carriage by multiple platform types ideally. AS for the performance of the chosen weapon system, I cannot see the need for a range of more then 20 miles, and with multiple guidance options including a "Man in the loop", capability. Any targets beyond this range would be the prerogative of the Royal Artillery, but a 20 mile range is compatible with the more dispersed operating doctrine we are to adopt moving forward.

I see the core launch platform being Boxer, equipping Mechanised Infantry, Recce and Armoured Units, with a lighter weight version to support the Light BCTs and Royal Marines and a UGV version for Airmobile and Airborne units. I mention Armoured units as in the past these had a troop of FV438s with Swingfire, replaced later on by the Spartan MCT with Milan 2.

Of course with our Battlegroup Doctrine these could be omitted if the Infantry and Recce had full Companies/Squadrons of said platform, that would be dispersed amongst the combined arms formations created.

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Tempest414
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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

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for me when looking at a Armoured Battalion the ATGW platoon has 3 x sections each with 2 vehicles and 4 x ATGW teams and 120 missiles replacing this with 9 Boxer with 16 Brimstone would give the ATGW Platoon 144 missile fired from under armour

if we gave the armoured infantry sections 2 x NLAW and one new hand held 40mm GMG capable of lobbing a 40mm grenade 800 meters

and then if we gave the Mortar Platoon 120mm NEMO Boxer we could be getting somewhere

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by Lord Jim »

W wouldn't even have to use NEMO. BAe developed an effective, turreted 120mm Mortar back in the 90's, which is used on Saudi National Guard LAVs.

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

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Lord Jim wrote: 20 Jun 2022, 18:38 W wouldn't even have to use NEMO. BAe developed an effective, turreted 120mm Mortar back in the 90's, which is used on Saudi National Guard LAVs.
NEMO would be a heck of a lot easier than trying to unearth the drawings for the RO turreted mortar.

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by Lord Jim »

Yes it would but it wouldn't be made in the UK then. I brought it up because there is usually someone who brings up the "Mande in UK", argument whenever something is purchased and manufactured abroad, so I thought I would play Devil's Advocate for once, and even that didn't work. Oh well. :roll:

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by mr.fred »

Made in the UK is worth considering if that capability still exists. Not sure that 30-year old weapon systems count. The gun laying kit would be obsolescent at best and would the ordnance or the ability to make it even exist?
The lack of ordnance manufacturing capability is a concern.
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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by Timmymagic »

Lord Jim wrote: 19 Jun 2022, 02:11 There is no truck mounted double pod platform that I am aware of as given HIMARS is truck mounted, it would take a much larger platform, especially wider to mount a two pod launcher on such a platform.
South Korean K-MLRS, K239 Chunmoo....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K239_Chunmoo

Or you could take the launcher unit off the back of a M270 and mount on a MAN HX series easily.

No need to change from GMLRS and PrSM as it can/could use them...but it also has the ability to fire a smaller unguided rocket in packs of 36, so a real area weapon as well.

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by Timmymagic »

The answer to all of our prayers really....

The Artillery Gun Module...if we could get in soon we could make the UK the main manufacturing centre for it...1 gun system, 3 platforms, Tracked, Boxer wheeled heavy armour, MAN HX wheeled.

Boxer Tracked

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Boxer Wheeled

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MAN HX3

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I'll take 40 of each please....add in 30 M777-ER, 30 LIMAWS(R) and 50 MAN/Chunmoo...and we're done...

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by sol »

Timmymagic wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 10:35 The Artillery Gun Module...if we could get in soon we could make the UK the main manufacturing centre for it...1 gun system, 3 platforms, Tracked, Boxer wheeled heavy armour, MAN HX wheeled.
Module on MAN HX3 is not the same as the one mounted on Boxer. It is not even the same gun, as one is 52 while other is 60 caliber. But I think you can use Boxer gun module on MAN platform. I don't think you can say the same with 60 cal module as it is much bigger than the one built for Boxer.

I don't see anything wrong with this one either



Great platform used by 8 countries, some of them in NATO, 52cal gun with potential growth to 60 cal.

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by RunningStrong »

Boxer Artillery Gun Module is KMW.

The Rheinmetall MAN offering is 100% not KMW (not sure the turret supplier has been publicly announced).

Both are currently shown with L52.

Rheinmetall have an L60 in offering, but still under development at a ordnance level.

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by sol »

RunningStrong wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 14:18 Both are currently shown with L52.
Thank you for clarification. I though that it was L60 but I guess it is mostly common mentioned in relation with platform and that is why I though that it is L60, but I was wrong.

Example of Boxer gun module on AGM Iveco 8×8 truck

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by Lord Jim »

Whilst I personally favour a whhed replacement for the AS-90, that K8A2 is an absolute beast.

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

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Timmymagic wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 10:35 The answer to all of our prayers really....

The Artillery Gun Module...if we could get in soon we could make the UK the main manufacturing centre for it...1 gun system, 3 platforms, Tracked, Boxer wheeled heavy armour, MAN HX wheeled.

Boxer Tracked

Image

Boxer Wheeled

Image

MAN HX3

Image

I'll take 40 of each please....add in 30 M777-ER, 30 LIMAWS(R) and 50 MAN/Chunmoo...and we're done...
For me if going this route I would go for 60 of each tracked and wheeled boxer 60 MAN/Chunmoo plus 70 Brimstone/ Spear Boxer , 60 Brimstone / Spear Viking and 60 Brimstone / Spear MRV(P)-2 and keep the 105mm for the FCF & 16AA this should allow

Deep fires BCT = 40 x Tracked Boxer , 30 x MAN/Chunmoo , 20 x Brimstone Boxer

2 x Armoured BCT's = 20 x Wheeled Boxer , 10 MAN/Chunmoo , 20 x Brimstone Boxer

3 x Light Mech BCT's = 20 x Brimstone / Spear

FCF & 16AA = 20 x 105mm , 12 Brimstone Viking each

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Re: UK Mobile Fires Platform

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote: 19 Jun 2022, 02:11 it is possible to carry an M270 in a A400 Atlas then that would improve the platforms expeditionary credentials but not by much as it is tactically inferior to the HIMARS when it comes to mobility.
A v good point.
Lord Jim wrote: 19 Jun 2022, 02:11 We need to have as small as possible sensor to shooter loop, and we must be able to operate in a far more dispersed format whilst still being able to concentrate the fire effect
And also to be able to counter the adversary side's sensing platforms... that might mean the 'derided as obsolete; radiation-homing missiles as they would be homing on targets (anti-arty) that must be kept on, as opposed to the AD ones that have more far reaching systems supporting and telling them when to switch on, at the last minute
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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