Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

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Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

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Re: Starstreak (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & Royal Marines)

Post by SKB »


(Thales UK) 19th February 2019


(Royal Marines) 20th June 2018


(EngineerReact) 19th February 2022

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Re: Starstreak (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & Royal Navy (RM))

Post by RunningStrong »

Another great piece of kit that apparently can be taught in a 5 part online learning module recently written in Ukrainian...

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by TSharpe28 »

Stormer is getting old; needs a replacement soon.

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Tempest414 »

I would like to see the Rapid-Ranger system based on a Bushmaster for our light BCT's for use as point air defence + HVM and LMM can be used against light armour to

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by TSharpe28 »

Tempest414 wrote: 10 Mar 2022, 16:16 I would like to see the Rapid-Ranger system based on a Bushmaster for our light BCT's for use as point air defence + HVM and LMM can be used against light armour to
What is Rapid-Ranger?

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Tempest414 »

if you watch the first video above it is a 4 round system mounted on a vehicle like Bushmaster this system should allow a Bushmaster to have 4 ready rounds and carry 12 rounds with a 4 man crew

Back in the day it was called Thor if you put starstreck Thor in to youtube you can see it working at the end of the video you see Thales say each dart can punch through a inch of armour with kinetic energy only

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Lord Jim »

Build a new Mission Module for the Boxer with the turret and sensors from the Stormer HVM platform and problem solved. You end up with a more capable platform that is cheaper to maintain, has room for growth and can carry more rounds . Tag on a 30mm Chain Gun as used by the Apache and you have an even better vehicle.
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Tempest414 »

Lord Jim wrote: 11 Mar 2022, 19:42 Build a new Mission Module for the Boxer with the turret and sensors from the Stormer HVM platform and problem solved. You end up with a more capable platform that is cheaper to maintain, has room for growth and can carry more rounds . Tag on a 30mm Chain Gun as used by the Apache and you have an even better vehicle.
This would be great for the Mec BCT's which would already have Boxer.

But what I am talking about is fitting the Rapid Ranger system to a Bushmaster for the light motorized BCT's given the sizie and weight of HVM depending how stored in the back Bushmaster should be able to carry 4 ready rounds on the mount and 12 to 16 inside plus maybe the Rapid Ranger mount could be adapted to fit a 12.7mm or 30mm gun as well

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Tempest414 »

Also just looking at Spike LR which is the same size and weight as Starstreak so if Thales could adapted the rapid ranger mount for Spike LR the Light motorized BCT's could have Bushmasters fitted the same mount rigged for either air defence or anti tank

This could mean we could see a Motorized BCT based on Bushmaster with

C&C
APC with RWS fitted with 12.7mm , 30mm , 40mm GMG
Air defence with Rapid ranger with Star streak / LMM & 30mm chain gun
Anti tank with rapid ranger with Spike LR & 40mm GMG
SP Mortar
engineer
medic
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by SKB »

Starstreak shoots down Russian helicopter

(The Sun) 2nd April 2022
A RUSSIAN helicopter has been blasted out of the sky by Ukrainian forces using a British missile for the first time. Dramatic footage shows the moment the Mi-28N is hit by the Starstreak in the Luhansk region of eastern Ukraine. The Starstreak is the world’s fastest surface-to-air missile and can travel at over four times the speed of sound.

Ministry of Defence sources said it’s the first time the missile has been used to bring down a Russian aircraft. In the video, the chopper can be seen skimming the treetops before it’s hit in the tail by the Starstreak. The missile can be seen lifting off through the trees towards its target.
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Timmymagic »

Tempest414 wrote: 12 Mar 2022, 10:46 Also just looking at Spike LR which is the same size and weight as Starstreak so if Thales could adapted the rapid ranger mount for Spike LR the Light motorized BCT's could have Bushmasters fitted the same mount rigged for either air defence or anti tank
We need to avoid any Israeli purchases in future. They've refused permission for Spike missiles to be sent as aid to Ukraine. Given that they're used by most of European NATO and Canada that has meant that most of NATO's nations have been unable to send ATGM...they need to be utterly removed as a NATO supplier for that.

MMP is more advanced and is partially made in the UK...a production line in the UK would be very easy to establish.

As for 30mm cannon...why not use the UK made 30mm Venom from AEI in the UK. It's a redesigned ADEN cannon and is lighter, a familiar weapon system to UK forces and fully made in the UK. Ammo is compatible with the Apache's chain gun...

But even then I'd be cautious, Airburst is absolutely required to deal with UAV's and Loitering Munitions, whilst 30mm airburst rounds have recently been trialed they're not going to have anywhere near the potential of 35mm up as a result of the limited bursting charge and fragmentation once the larger fusing is taken into account.

The irony of all this is we have a perfect 40mm weapon....and we own lots of them. 40mm CT. We ordered hundreds for Warrior that cost a fortune and will be going spare. The solution is really a turret on Boxer that utilises these and the trialed 40mm CT airburst round, add in a multi missile launcher for LMM, APKWS, Starstreak and Javelin and we could recover a lot of lost ground (the reason why I say Javelin is that we have this in stock, with better optics it can reach out to 4,000m rather than the current CLU limited 2,500m range. For dismounted we should switch to MMP.)
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Tempest414 »

Timmymagic wrote: 05 Apr 2022, 11:03
Tempest414 wrote: 12 Mar 2022, 10:46 Also just looking at Spike LR which is the same size and weight as Starstreak so if Thales could adapted the rapid ranger mount for Spike LR the Light motorized BCT's could have Bushmasters fitted the same mount rigged for either air defence or anti tank
We need to avoid any Israeli purchases in future. They've refused permission for Spike missiles to be sent as aid to Ukraine. Given that they're used by most of European NATO and Canada that has meant that most of NATO's nations have been unable to send ATGM...they need to be utterly removed as a NATO supplier for that.

MMP is more advanced and is partially made in the UK...a production line in the UK would be very easy to establish.

As for 30mm cannon...why not use the UK made 30mm Venom from AEI in the UK. It's a redesigned ADEN cannon and is lighter, a familiar weapon system to UK forces and fully made in the UK. Ammo is compatible with the Apache's chain gun...

But even then I'd be cautious, Airburst is absolutely required to deal with UAV's and Loitering Munitions, whilst 30mm airburst rounds have recently been trialed they're not going to have anywhere near the potential of 35mm up as a result of the limited bursting charge and fragmentation once the larger fusing is taken into account.

The irony of all this is we have a perfect 40mm weapon....and we own lots of them. 40mm CT. We ordered hundreds for Warrior that cost a fortune and will be going spare. The solution is really a turret on Boxer that utilises these and the trialed 40mm CT airburst round, add in a multi missile launcher for LMM, APKWS, Starstreak and Javelin and we could recover a lot of lost ground (the reason why I say Javelin is that we have this in stock, with better optics it can reach out to 4,000m rather than the current CLU limited 2,500m range. For dismounted we should switch to MMP.)
My comments above are in context of the Light motorizied BCT's that would not and should not have Boxer in them. As Thales make both Bushmaster and Rapid Ranger a Air defence Bushmaster should be a simple thing and I am a little shocked they have not push it for Australia. The reason I was taking about Spike LR was it is the same weight and size as Starstreak there for would not unsettle the Rapid Ranger mount to much however looking at MMP it is only 1 kg heavier and 1 cm bigger than Starstreak so may work just as well the gun was a nice to have the main thing would be having a SP anti air and anti tank Bushmaster using a common mount and optics for the Light BCT's

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by seaspear »

The A.D.F is going to use the Hawkei vehicles in an air defence role
https://www.contactairlandandsea.com/20 ... ce-system/
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Lord Jim »

Yes it appears they are going for two systems, both using the same missile but with different radars and platforms. The light mobile units will use the Hawkei whilst the heavier static units will use the current medium trucks used by the ADF.

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Timmymagic »

seaspear wrote: 05 Apr 2022, 12:50 The A.D.F is going to use the Hawkei vehicles in an air defence role
Got to say when I see missiles that are not in a maintenance free canister I have real concerns...

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Lord Jim »

Well if they are designed to be floen around the skies in all weather and at great speed they must be pretty resilient and the vehicles won't always have missile loaded. I wonder if Meteor could be developed for such a system?

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Tempest414 »

The other thing for me is it carries 4 missiles and needs another vehicle to carry more where a bushmaster with rapid ranger would carry 4 ready missiles and 16 more in the vehicle and they can be man handled / loaded where the Hawkei system will need a loading system i.e a crane. So one Bushmaster would have 16 to 20 missiles and its own optics system where the Hawkei will need 3 vehicles the launch vehicle a lorry with more missiles and a crane plus a 3rd vehicle to track the target that is a lot to go wrong and a lot of logistics

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by mr.fred »

Lord Jim wrote: 06 Apr 2022, 09:23 Well if they are designed to be floen around the skies in all weather and at great speed they must be pretty resilient and the vehicles won't always have missile loaded. I wonder if Meteor could be developed for such a system?
Handling loads and aerodynamic/inertial loads are quite different. On a plane you’re not likely to have so much in the way of bumps, scrapes and impacts compared to ground handling.

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Lord Jim »

Yes but the Missiles are transported and stored in Protected Transportation Containers, Sure once on the Hawkei they are exposed but if designed correctly, the Hawkei Chassis should protect the Missiles form the majority of knocks and scrapes, otherwise I am sure they would have chosen a different platform.

One system the UK could look at is the MACIS programme being run by the USMC. This has produces a very light weight 360 degree radar system that provides target information to vehicle mounted MANPADS such as Stinger. This system or a variant of it would be of benefit to our Starstreak/LMM equipped units, especially as the Radar system can be installed on vehicles as light USMCs ultra light weight platforms that are basically Dune Buggies in its LMADIS form. We should still keep our ground based IRST system as this would compliment the MADIS radar.

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by mr.fred »

Lord Jim wrote: 07 Apr 2022, 13:49 Yes but the Missiles are transported and stored in Protected Transportation Containers, Sure once on the Hawkei they are exposed but if designed correctly, the Hawkei Chassis should protect the Missiles form the majority of knocks and scrapes, otherwise I am sure they would have chosen a different platform.
Transferring the missiles from the transport containers to the launch containers/mounts is much easier and safer on an airfield than somewhere in the outback.

Maybe the people responsible believe that they can control the risk and maybe they’re right, but it still does not follow that use on an aircraft covers you for ground use.

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Timmymagic »

Lord Jim wrote: 06 Apr 2022, 09:23 Well if they are designed to be floen around the skies in all weather and at great speed they must be pretty resilient and the vehicles won't always have missile loaded. I wonder if Meteor could be developed for such a system
The reason why you don't see live missiles on anything other than QRA or combat missions is precisely because missiles are very susceptible to that sort of treatment. Flying hours on missiles are carefully monitored. Once a missile has gone over a certain number it needs recertifying or retiring for safety. Every time you drive over a bump in the road, or particularly drive cross country you're going to be putting strain on components. Lots of small g bumbs are ultimately just as bad as a few large g manoeuvres.
Lord Jim wrote: 07 Apr 2022, 13:49 One system the UK could look at is the MACIS programme being run by the USMC. This has produces a very light weight 360 degree radar system that provides target information to vehicle mounted MANPADS such as Stinger.
There's a pretty decent version of Giraffe that can do the same, plus lots of experience in the UK with people like Blighter. But ADADS works, an upgraded passive sensor is probably more important in the short term.

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by mr.fred »

Timmymagic wrote: 11 Apr 2022, 21:40 Lots of small g bumbs are ultimately just as bad as a few large g manoeuvres.
Also the kind of bumps associated with ground manoeuvre can be higher g, if shorter duration, compared to what you’d get on an aircraft.
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Lord Jim »

I didn't mean to say that because a missile was used on aircraft it was covered for all eventualities it would meet when used form the ground, but the System being developed by Australia must have taken these risks into account. I also agree that Giraffe is a family of very good radars, I highlighted MACIS as in its light weight version it is incredibly light and could probably be mounted on a trailer towed behind a quad bike.

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

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Martlet is putting in work rn. Wow.


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