Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Timmymagic wrote: 27 May 2022, 13:01 useful applications for Rapier would be as a defence system for fixed positions, freeing up other Ukrainian assets to move to the front i.e. airfields, refineries, weapons plants, munitions depots etc. Rapiers range isn't great but it is capable against Russian cruise missiles at least, which appear to be the biggest threat to these faciities (in addition to the occasional Iskander semi-ballistic missile which Rapier is not going to be able to deal with).
Exactly
Timmymagic wrote: 27 May 2022, 13:01 no-one has yet pulled some i-Hawk out of storage...for the same reason, they could cover the west and centre of the country freeing up systems the Ukrainian's are more familiar with for the east and south.
Who's got them? Patriots for Sweden are far from operational.... so not from there.
-anyone else?
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Lord Jim »

I would prefer we retain our Rapier FSC and give them to the RAF Regiment to defend airfields at home and abroard as there are not going to be any Sky Sabre units to carry out that role as ew seem to have forgotten how vulnerable airfield are to attack.
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote: 28 May 2022, 06:57 there are not going to be any Sky Sabre units to carry out that role
Better get our skates on.

I can't believe the RAF Rgmnt was denuded of this task/ capability. What is their strength these days (have there been cuts 'under the radar')?
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Lord Jim »

Well their seem to be six Field Squadrons and six Force Protection Squadron which make up the regular element of teh RAF Regiment. Each squadron is roughly Company sized give a total of around 1500 personnel after a numebr of Squadrons were disbanded or the manning levels reduced in total by 300 personnel as of last year. There are also right Squadrons that are part of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force. All Squadrons are tasked with Ground Combat though No2 Squadron is parachute trained.

Maybe we could look at the Force Protection Squadrons and have each man a Battery of Rapier FSC as well as providing a platoon or two of Infantry. It appears the RAF Regiment's Squadrons were rotated through both Iraq and Afghanistan on multiple occasions, often used as regular Infantry rather than their usual role of base defence.

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Timmymagic »

First sighting of Stormer with HVM in Ukraine...


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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Timmymagic »

And just realised its has a mix of Starstreak and Martlet in the launchers...(Starstreak has the 3 holes in the black endcap, Martlet is Green with a square indentation). This one has 3 Starstreak loaded (for helos or fast air) and 5 Martlet (for UAV and helo engagements).


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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Timmymagic »

Is there a non-subscriber version floating around?

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by NickC »

Not aware of any, surprised other news sources have not picked up on it.
Earlier this week the Defence Secretary Ben Wallace met the Joint Expeditionary Force in Amsterdam and said that the UK will commit a further £250 million to the International Fund for Ukraine (IFU), as well as a new package of vital air defence capabilities worth £92 million, so maybe the cost of re-starting Starstreak production?

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/allie ... o-ukraine/

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Timmymagic »

NickC wrote: 17 Jun 2023, 12:58 Not aware of any, surprised other news sources have not picked up on it.
It's been mentioned a few times I think, but it shouldn't be too much of a surprise. We completed Starstreak 2 and tested it ages ago. The procurement funds were divered to LMM development and production. I suspect it will now be Starstreak 3 in practice to remove any obsolescence in components. As long as the shoulder mount has increased stabilisation, built in thermals and auto-tracking it should be a winner.

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Jdam »

Have we place orders to replace anything sent to Ukraine yet? (Starstreak, NLAW, Stormshadow, ect?)

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Timmymagic »

Jdam wrote: 17 Jun 2023, 14:12 Have we place orders to replace anything sent to Ukraine yet? (Starstreak, NLAW, Stormshadow, ect?)
NLAW - Yes
Storm Shadow - No, and there won't be as we will be waiting for FCASW. Only missiles sent were for disposal as not going through MLU. Order will be for FCASW when ready.
Starstreak - No. Probably awaiting decision on new platform. Stockpile was decent size. New variant 2 is ready but may need obsolescence removed.
LMM - No. Not yet...might be waiting for Lessons Learned from operational use. Given its success this is the most surprising...
Javelin - Yes. Order for new LWCLU and missiles has been made.
Brimstone - Not yet...but stockpile was decent. Probably deciding whether to order more Brimstone 3 or Spear variants.
AT4 CS/Matador - Carl Gustav order will replace these.
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Ron5 »

Timmymagic wrote: 17 Jun 2023, 11:58
Is there a non-subscriber version floating around?

A shoulder-fired missile that can travel over three times the speed of sound is being brought back into production after its deployment in Ukraine revived interest in the weapon.

, the French defense and technology giant, is restarting production of the Starstreak for the first time in more than a decade as Ukraine uses the superfast air-defense system to help repel Russian attacks.

The move is the latest example of how demand for weapons from Ukraine, combined with increased military spending by Western governments, is reviving once moribund production lines.

But the Starstreak’s relaunch could take more than a year, Thales says, underlining how the complexity of manufacturing weapons and industrywide supply-chain issues are slowing down Western rearmament in the face of rising geopolitical tensions.

“It will take a bit of time to order and to produce and deliver these missiles,” Thales Chief Executive Patrice Caine said of the overall task of boosting weapons production. “The lead times are quite long,” he added. One issue is the need to build up inventories of components.

The Starstreak will be made at Thales’s factory in Northern Ireland, which is already working to boost production of two other critical weapons for Ukraine. Those include an antitank missile that made headlines by destroying dozens of Russian tank columns early in the war.

Starstreak was commissioned by Britain and designed in the 1980s during the Cold War before entering service the following decade. Since then, the weapon—initially made by a company that Thales later acquired—has been exported around the world from Belfast, where its last production round was in 2012.

Last year, the U.K. government sent Ukraine a batch of the missiles from its own stockpiles as part of a broader package of thousands of surface-to-air weapons.

Thales is now restarting Starstreak production amid increased interest in the weapon, company executives said, with an initial order for an undisclosed number of missiles to replenish U.K. supplies. Both Thales and Britain’s Defense Ministry declined to comment on the cost of the weapon.

The Starstreak is unique among portable air-defense systems. The missile, which can be fired off the shoulder, accelerates to greater than Mach 3 in a fraction of a second before releasing three laser-guided darts toward a target. It can hit targets more than 4 miles away.
Starstreak Re-Emerges
The Ukraine war has revived interest in the Starstreak missile, a veteran air-defense system.

Range: 4.3 mi

Weight: 30.86 lbs

Speed: Over Mach 3

The British-made missile is faster than the main variant of Raytheon Technologies’ Stinger, a U.S. portable antiaircraft missile, which can hit speeds of up to Mach 2.9, according to Janes, the defense intelligence company.

While the Stinger is a so-called heat-seeking missile, the Starstreak is guided to its target by the operator. That method places a greater burden on its operator but means the missile is less susceptible to countermeasures, such as flares, and can hit smaller targets that give off less heat, said Ian Williams, an expert on missile technology at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a think tank.

The Ukraine war is promoting a rethink of various weapons programs.

Thales is also looking into restarting a production line of 120 mm ammunition, used in mortars and tanks, that has been dormant for 10 years, Caine said. Ukraine has drained stocks of artillery shells held by the U.S. and its allies.

BAE has said it is considering restarting production of the M777 howitzer, whose use on Ukrainian battlefields has revived interest in making an artillery piece that was being wound down.

BAE has also cautioned of a lengthy timeline. The company needs to find a new supplier of titanium as well as various components. A spokeswoman for BAE said the company is still exploring a potential restart.

Companies across the arms industry say they still face shortages of labor, computer chips, rocket motors and propellant, as well as higher costs.

More than half of major U.S. defense acquisition programs were delayed last year because of supplier disruptions and other problems, according to a report released Thursday by the U.S. Government Accountability Office.

U.S. arms maker Raytheon had to redesign some parts of its Stinger missile after receiving its first orders for the weapon in almost two decades in 2021. Parts used in earlier versions of the portable antiaircraft system were no longer produced.

Thales also faces the challenge of making sure its manufacturing process follows current regulations. Starstreak’s manufacturing process, for instance, previously used some chemicals that are now prohibited, said Alex Cresswell, chief executive of Thales’ U.K. arm.

Thales’s Belfast site also assembles the NLAW antitank missile system. Photo: Vadim Ghirda/Associated Press

A version of the Starstreak is also set to be made in India as part of a deal reached before the Ukraine war.

At Thales’s Belfast site, resumption of the missile’s production will add to an already busy schedule.

The factory is working to backfill some of Britain’s stocks of the Lightweight Multirole Missile system, a spokesman said. The short-range missile was sent by the U.K. to Ukraine last year, where it has been used to shoot down Russian drones.
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The site also assembles the NLAW antitank missile system, putting together parts made by Sweden’s Saab, the weapon’s designer.

The system played a significant role in the defense of Kyiv in the opening stages of the war, when Ukrainian forces used it on Russian tank convoys advancing on the city, according to a Ukrainian military spokesman.

Since the war in Ukraine, Saab said it has received orders for around $400 million worth of new NLAWs from the U.K., Finland and Sweden.

“We are making them like crazy,” Cresswell said.

Asa Fitch contributed to this article.

Write to Alistair MacDonald at Alistair.Macdonald@wsj.com
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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

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From WSJ article

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Timmymagic »

Ron5 wrote: 18 Jun 2023, 13:07 Starstreak was commissioned by Britain and designed in the 1980s during the Cold War before entering service the following decade. Since then, the weapon—initially made by a company that Thales later acquired—has been exported around the world from Belfast, where its last production round was in 2012.
This is incorrect. Last order for the UK may have been delivered in 2012, as Starstreak 2 was supposed to take over. But since then there have been orders for Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia (and potentially other quiet deals...). Suspect this relates to UK deliveries, or the fact that Thales renamed it Forceshield in 2012. Starstreak 2 never entered production however...all development and trials complete though.
Ron5 wrote: 18 Jun 2023, 13:07 Thales is now restarting Starstreak production amid increased interest in the weapon, company executives said, with an initial order for an undisclosed number of missiles to replenish U.K. supplies. Both Thales and Britain’s Defense Ministry declined to comment on the cost of the weapon.
Completely missed this order (if its actually fully signed and underway). Presumably it is for Starstreak 2 (or more likely an updated Starstreak 2 removing any obsolescent components from its initial development).
Ron5 wrote: 18 Jun 2023, 13:07 The British-made missile is faster than the main variant of Raytheon Technologies’ Stinger, a U.S. portable antiaircraft missile, which can hit speeds of up to Mach 2.9, according to Janes, the defense intelligence company.
Never heard of Stinger going faster than m2.2-2.5 at burnout, think they've got that bit wrong. Fastest IR Manpad was always seen as Mistral which peaked at m2.7.
Ron5 wrote: 18 Jun 2023, 13:07 Thales is also looking into restarting a production line of 120 mm ammunition, used in mortars and tanks, that has been dormant for 10 years, Caine said. Ukraine has drained stocks of artillery shells held by the U.S. and its allies.
Presumably this is a site in France?
Ron5 wrote: 18 Jun 2023, 13:07 BAE has said it is considering restarting production of the M777 howitzer, whose use on Ukrainian battlefields has revived interest in making an artillery piece that was being wound down.
This was reported in the WSJ back in October 2022, wonder if its progressed?. M777 has been an absolute rockstar and has disproved the idea that towed guns have no part in modern warfare. The M777-ER could be a game changer with its 58cal barrel and enormous range. Personally I'm a big fan of buying 40+ just to place the majority in reserve...they're that cheap in comparison to SPG's. Not sure if it refers to the US facility AND Barrow, or just Watervliet.
Ron5 wrote: 18 Jun 2023, 13:07 BAE has also cautioned of a lengthy timeline. The company needs to find a new supplier of titanium as well as various components. A spokeswoman for BAE said the company is still exploring a potential restart.
30-36 months was the timeline mentioned before, with an order book of at least 130 guns required to make it worthwhile. I suspect the Titanium supplier was in Russia....
Ron5 wrote: 18 Jun 2023, 13:07 A version of the Starstreak is also set to be made in India as part of a deal reached before the Ukraine war.
I think they're jumping the gun here...Thales and Bharat Defence have got a Starstreak collaboration going that started in 2017 then turned into a full arrangement in 2021. However, there is no order from the Indian Armed Forces yet...and there might never be. Who knows in the world of Indian procurement...India has purchased a small number of ATAS and SA-18, and has their own VSHORAD under development. But issues with the supply of all of those may open up the market...
Ron5 wrote: 18 Jun 2023, 13:07 The factory is working to backfill some of Britain’s stocks of the Lightweight Multirole Missile system, a spokesman said. The short-range missile was sent by the U.K. to Ukraine last year, where it has been used to shoot down Russian drones.
First I've heard of this. Wonder how they've contracted it? A variation to the existing contract?
Ron5 wrote: 18 Jun 2023, 13:07 The site also assembles the NLAW antitank missile system, putting together parts made by Sweden’s Saab, the weapon’s designer.
Wonder if they've managed to get the UK component suppliers back up and running?
Ron5 wrote: 18 Jun 2023, 13:07 “We are making them like crazy,” Cresswell said.
Did see a photo somewhere from within Thales factory of a large number of new NLAW awaiting shipping. Suspect they'll be very busy at that site for years to come...

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Re: Starstreak Missile (Man-Portable Air-Defence System) (British Army & RN (RM))

Post by Timmymagic »

Stormer and Starstreak doing what they were designed to do....kill KA-52

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