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Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 22 Oct 2022, 21:53
by Jensy
TheLoneRanger wrote: 22 Oct 2022, 12:14 Not sure how you can blamed "the current goverment" for the failures of the MOD to conduct a procurement programme that has gone horribly wrong for 30 years as indicated by Jensy...

The problem is the MOD ... their procurement ability sucks - just look at how effective tiny Israel is in their procurement programmes relative to the size of their MOD ....
I'm not sure I understand your post, or if it's even aimed at me...

It's quite easy to attack civil servants, and can at times be justifiable. However this is a programme that was started under this government, whose parameters, projected procurement numbers and budget were set by this government. Particularly by the MoD, led by Ben Wallace who has portrayed himself as 'the man to set right UK defence procurement'.

Industry responded, some companies more enthusiastically than others and a timetable for delivery was set.

We're now in a position where the programme is delayed, despite this being a fairly simple (in comparison to CASD, Tempest, Type 26 etc.) requirement.

I can't see any possible way to blame anyone but the government, whose ministers are responsible for the failures of their departments.

It might be one of the endless flow of chancellors leading the treasury, it might be Wallace and it might even be the department for BEIS. One way or another this is down to elected officials, not the 'Sir Humphreys' (incompetent or not). As I think my post makes clear, my finger is squarely pointed at those in charge of the MoD.

Israel delivers projects on time because they have existential threats that require efficient and world class delivery of platforms and systems. We're still living like it's the 90s/00s.

Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 23 Oct 2022, 14:15
by Ron5
Jensy wrote: 22 Oct 2022, 21:53
TheLoneRanger wrote: 22 Oct 2022, 12:14 Not sure how you can blamed "the current goverment" for the failures of the MOD to conduct a procurement programme that has gone horribly wrong for 30 years as indicated by Jensy...

The problem is the MOD ... their procurement ability sucks - just look at how effective tiny Israel is in their procurement programmes relative to the size of their MOD ....
I'm not sure I understand your post, or if it's even aimed at me...

It's quite easy to attack civil servants, and can at times be justifiable. However this is a programme that was started under this government, whose parameters, projected procurement numbers and budget were set by this government. Particularly by the MoD, led by Ben Wallace who has portrayed himself as 'the man to set right UK defence procurement'.

Industry responded, some companies more enthusiastically than others and a timetable for delivery was set.

We're now in a position where the programme is delayed, despite this being a fairly simple (in comparison to CASD, Tempest, Type 26 etc.) requirement.

I can't see any possible way to blame anyone but the government, whose ministers are responsible for the failures of their departments.

It might be one of the endless flow of chancellors leading the treasury, it might be Wallace and it might even be the department for BEIS. One way or another this is down to elected officials, not the 'Sir Humphreys' (incompetent or not). As I think my post makes clear, my finger is squarely pointed at those in charge of the MoD.

Israel delivers projects on time because they have existential threats that require efficient and world class delivery of platforms and systems. We're still living like it's the 90s/00s.
Most likely cause is a Treasury mandated slowdown: "Postpone any discretionary spending UFN".

Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 27 Oct 2022, 07:51
by Lord Jim
The MoD is well known for implementing moratoriums to cut or reduce spending at little or no advance notice to the relevant departments.

Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 01 Nov 2022, 13:31
by SW1

Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 02 Nov 2022, 09:06
by jonas
Leonardo and Sikorsky have also passed DPQQ.

Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 02 Nov 2022, 11:45
by Jensy
jonas wrote: 02 Nov 2022, 09:06 Leonardo and Sikorsky have also passed DPQQ.
It seems the Bell and AceHawk didn't make the cut, with Boeing making it four over the line:
https://www.flightglobal.com/helicopter ... 79.article

Though I foundthis interesting:
Boeing’s interest in the requirement is unclear given the lack of a suitable aircraft in its range: the only medium helicopter it could offer is the MH-139, which is based on Leonardo’s best-selling AW139.

However, two sources suggest Boeing may instead be interested in the support and training elements of the procurement.
Considering there are already two AW139 production lines up and serving far large order books, I would be surprised if the offer of setting up another is on the table.

Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 23 Nov 2022, 09:22
by SW1
H175m video interview with test pilot

https://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video ... y=1&logo=0

Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 23 Nov 2022, 16:02
by Ron5
Brazen revolving door. I wonder if that is smart.

Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 24 Nov 2022, 00:11
by Little J




The close air support configuration in that last video looks good with Brimstone :thumbup:

Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 24 Nov 2022, 10:44
by Cooper
I'm pretty sure this contract is for Augusta to lose.

It goes beyond just a helicopter contract, but also politics, in keeping Italy sweet on their continuing involvement with Tempest.

Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 24 Nov 2022, 16:44
by Ron5
Cooper wrote: 24 Nov 2022, 10:44 I'm pretty sure this contract is for Augusta to lose.

It goes beyond just a helicopter contract, but also politics, in keeping Italy sweet on their continuing involvement with Tempest.
Not who has the most votes in the competing constituencies?

Re: New Medium Helicopter [NMH] - (RAF & AAC)

Posted: 24 Nov 2022, 20:27
by Little J
Cooper wrote: 24 Nov 2022, 10:44 I'm pretty sure this contract is for Augusta to lose.

It goes beyond just a helicopter contract, but also politics, in keeping Italy sweet on their continuing involvement with Tempest.
The 149 & 175 are very evenly matched... It'll come down to politics.


On a personal, highly unimportant subject... The 149 is easier to look at :lol:
The 175 just looks a bit ungainly to me :shifty: