Trident

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
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WhitestElephant
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Re: Trident

Post by WhitestElephant »

IrishT wrote:
WhitestElephant wrote:Neither would I! I think for all intents and purposes, Trident is operationally independent of the US. I cannot see the US standing in our way if our vital national interests were at stake. I suspect even if they did try and prevent us, there must be ways to work around it... perhaps with the French?
The French don't even maintain their own warheads, they get the Germans to do it :/
Really? I didn't know that, I always thought they were 100% independent given how quick they are to berate us for using American ballistic missiles. I would appreciate it if you could link to some information here, at your own leisure of course. Cheers!
Though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are. - Lord Tennyson (Ulysses)

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Re: Trident

Post by IrishT »

WhitestElephant wrote:Really? I didn't know that, I always thought they were 100% independent given how quick they are to berate us for using American ballistic missiles. I would appreciate it if you could link to some information here, at your own leisure of course. Cheers!
:oops:
I can't find where I read it, now this is infuriating me, I've spent like a good hour trawling through the internet and books I have trying to find the passage :evil: :evil:

I'll write down what I can remember, though.

In November 1992, France shut down its production of weapons grade plutonium. In June 1996, they shut down the production of weapons grade uranium. Between those years, they retired many of their short-range "last warning" nuclear weapons (signed the CTBT in September 96). France began dismantling Russian nuclear weapons and returning uranium for use in nuclear reactors with AIDA (Germany joined with "DEMOX", I believe, I might be wrong). The S3 was dismantled in late 96 (it was supposed to be replaced by an M45-land version, but they just decided to do away with the land-based deterrent instead).

Currently, France's CEA (military) works with MBAD (37.5% Dutch, 37.5% British, 25% Italian) to develop and produce both weapons and warheads (the investors are largely German banks). Germany-Netherlands-Britain have around double the enrichment capacity that France currently does (France was spending more on centrifuges (Areva suspended enrichment plans in 2011 in Marcoule, but are(?) going ahead with enrichment at Georges Besse 1 & 2) and intends to increase its enrichment capacity to around 8000kg of enriched uranium by 2020 (compared to 15,700 SWU/yr by Brit-Netherlands-Germany; around 15,000 for the US).


If I find the passage I read, I'll post it.

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The Armchair Soldier
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Re: Trident

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

Navy Probes Leaked Trident Safety Claims
The Royal Navy is to investigate claims that security and safety procedures around the Trident nuclear submarines are inadequate.

The investigation was launched after the claims were made by a submariner who has since gone on the run.

Able Seaman William McNeilly alleged the Trident programme was a "disaster waiting to happen."

The Royal Navy said that the submarine fleet operated "under the most stringent safety regime."

It confirmed that Mr McNeilly, from Belfast, was a member of the naval service, and that it was concerned for his wellbeing and working closely with civilian police to locate him.

'Safety regime'

A Royal Navy spokesman said: "The Royal Navy takes security and nuclear safety extremely seriously and we are fully investigating both the issue of the unauthorised release of this document and its contents.

"The naval service operates its submarine fleet under the most stringent safety regime and submarines do not go to sea unless they are completely safe to do so."

The spokesman also said the Navy "completely disagreed" with Mr McNeilly's report, claiming that it "contains a number of subjective and unsubstantiated personal views, made by a very junior sailor."
Read More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32771925

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Re: Trident

Post by jonas »

The Armchair Soldier wrote:Navy Probes Leaked Trident Safety Claims
The Royal Navy is to investigate claims that security and safety procedures around the Trident nuclear submarines are inadequate.

The investigation was launched after the claims were made by a submariner who has since gone on the run.

Able Seaman William McNeilly alleged the Trident programme was a "disaster waiting to happen."

The Royal Navy said that the submarine fleet operated "under the most stringent safety regime."

It confirmed that Mr McNeilly, from Belfast, was a member of the naval service, and that it was concerned for his wellbeing and working closely with civilian police to locate him.

'Safety regime'

A Royal Navy spokesman said: "The Royal Navy takes security and nuclear safety extremely seriously and we are fully investigating both the issue of the unauthorised release of this document and its contents.

"The naval service operates its submarine fleet under the most stringent safety regime and submarines do not go to sea unless they are completely safe to do so."



The spokesman also said the Navy "completely disagreed" with Mr McNeilly's report, claiming that it "contains a number of subjective and unsubstantiated personal views, made by a very junior sailor."
Read More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32771925
Sorry, I was trying to post the link to the article, but cannot get it to work without it printing the whole article itself which is very long.

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WhitestElephant
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Re: Trident

Post by WhitestElephant »

IrishT wrote:
WhitestElephant wrote:Really? I didn't know that, I always thought they were 100% independent given how quick they are to berate us for using American ballistic missiles. I would appreciate it if you could link to some information here, at your own leisure of course. Cheers!
:oops:
I can't find where I read it, now this is infuriating me, I've spent like a good hour trawling through the internet and books I have trying to find the passage :evil: :evil:

I'll write down what I can remember, though.

In November 1992, France shut down its production of weapons grade plutonium. In June 1996, they shut down the production of weapons grade uranium. Between those years, they retired many of their short-range "last warning" nuclear weapons (signed the CTBT in September 96). France began dismantling Russian nuclear weapons and returning uranium for use in nuclear reactors with AIDA (Germany joined with "DEMOX", I believe, I might be wrong). The S3 was dismantled in late 96 (it was supposed to be replaced by an M45-land version, but they just decided to do away with the land-based deterrent instead).

Currently, France's CEA (military) works with MBAD (37.5% Dutch, 37.5% British, 25% Italian) to develop and produce both weapons and warheads (the investors are largely German banks). Germany-Netherlands-Britain have around double the enrichment capacity that France currently does (France was spending more on centrifuges (Areva suspended enrichment plans in 2011 in Marcoule, but are(?) going ahead with enrichment at Georges Besse 1 & 2) and intends to increase its enrichment capacity to around 8000kg of enriched uranium by 2020 (compared to 15,700 SWU/yr by Brit-Netherlands-Germany; around 15,000 for the US).


If I find the passage I read, I'll post it.
No worries fella! I appreciate you taking the time to share with us what you remember, and in such detail too! Please do post it if you ever stumble across it again, I would be very interested. But please don't go out of your way, as I said, at your own leisure, there's no rush.

Welcome to the forum btw :D
Though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are. - Lord Tennyson (Ulysses)

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-Eddie-
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Re: Trident

Post by -Eddie- »

The Armchair Soldier wrote:Navy Probes Leaked Trident Safety Claims
Some low rate techy gets all moody because no one gives a fuck about his opinion so he writes this. The same low rate techy gets a chub on because no media outlet cares enough to publish it. Golden boy puts it online and breaks numerous laws (very serious ones) and goes from hero to zero before SIB even catch up to him.

I guess we'll be needing those new boats even sooner now :lol: Your serve, SNP.

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GibMariner
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Re: Trident 'Leak' Statement

Post by GibMariner »

Written statement by Defence Secretary

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/comm ... -Clyde.pdf

Foxbat
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Re: Trident

Post by Foxbat »

Just regarding the end of that report I can't imagine that Able Seaman McNeilly will still be in the employ of the Royal Navy for very much longer!

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GibMariner
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Re: Trident

Post by GibMariner »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ident.html
Russian submarines are likely to have gathered valuable intelligence on Britain’s nuclear deterrent since the Government scrapped maritime patrol aircraft needed to track them, senior RAF figures warn.
Britain’s lack of submarine-hunting planes after the Nimrod fleet was axed has left Trident vulnerable to Russian spying which could “prejudice the security and effectiveness” of the deterrent, they argue.

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The Armchair Soldier
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Re: Trident

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

Trident Whistleblower William McNeilly Leaves Royal Navy
A submariner who went on the run last month after publishing claims about the safety of the UK's nuclear deterrent has left the Royal Navy.

Able Seaman William McNeilly, from Belfast, alleged the Trident missile programme, based on the Clyde, was a "disaster waiting to happen".

He went into hiding abroad but handed himself in to military police after returning to the UK last month.

In a fresh online post, he said he had been given a "dishonourable discharge".

He wrote: "All of the charges against me were dropped - there's nothing that I can be charged with now.
Read More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-33161226

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Re: Trident

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

Britain Plans to Deploy Trident for First Time Since Cold War in Face of Putin Aggression
BRITAIN is planning an unprecedented test of its nuclear attack submarines' capabilities in the face of growing Russian aggression, it emerged today.

Ministers want to carry out a series of elaborate war games which would establish our readiness to deal with an attack by Vladimir Putin.

They are plotting a huge nuclear warfare simulation with fellow NATO members in a show of defiance to Russia, which has become increasingly strident in its rhetoric towards the West.

If they go ahead, the war games would be the first time the Trident nuclear deterrent system has been deployed alongside forces from other nations since the Cold War.
Read More: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/610983 ... ussia-NATO

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shark bait
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Re: Trident

Post by shark bait »

to deal with an attack by Vladimir Putin.
& Jeremy Corbin
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Re: Trident

Post by jonas »

The Armchair Soldier wrote:Britain Plans to Deploy Trident for First Time Since Cold War in Face of Putin Aggression
BRITAIN is planning an unprecedented test of its nuclear attack submarines' capabilities in the face of growing Russian aggression, it emerged today.

Ministers want to carry out a series of elaborate war games which would establish our readiness to deal with an attack by Vladimir Putin.

They are plotting a huge nuclear warfare simulation with fellow NATO members in a show of defiance to Russia, which has become increasingly strident in its rhetoric towards the West.

If they go ahead, the war games would be the first time the Trident nuclear deterrent system has been deployed alongside forces from other nations since the Cold War.
Read More: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/610983 ... ussia-NATO
As the Trident SSBN's whole purpose in life is to hide itself and remain hidden until the time it is needed (hopefully never). Then for the Express to suggest it would deploy alongside forces from other nations, strikes me as a completely misinformed statement.

No doubt they would be part of the exercise, but well away from any of the other participants. I would imagine that the only time they would ever be near another vessel, is if other boats are tasked to try and make contact and track them. This would be the major test of an SSBN to keep itself well out of harms way.

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Re: Trident

Post by SKB »

Silly scare-mongering headline. Trident has been continuously deployed aboard RN SSBN submarines for years.

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Re: Trident

Post by Foxbat »

They also tell us that each Vanguard-class submarine is armed with sixteen warheads... :roll:

I'm struggling to think of a newspaper article more riddled with errors and misunderstandings than this piece of drivel.

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Re: Trident

Post by shark bait »

SKB wrote:Silly scare-mongering headline. Trident has been continuously deployed aboard RN SSBN submarines for years.
Yes those where my thoughts, doesn't make sense.
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Re: Trident

Post by Pseudo »

Able Archer 16 anyone? :? :)

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Re: Trident

Post by jonas »

shark bait wrote:
SKB wrote:Silly scare-mongering headline. Trident has been continuously deployed aboard RN SSBN submarines for years.
Yes those where my thoughts, doesn't make sense.
Whilst agreeing that the article is typical media shite, where does it say that Trident hasn't been continuously deployed for years ? Seems to me that you are reading something into the article that isn't there.

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Re: Trident

Post by Pseudo »

jonas wrote:
shark bait wrote:
SKB wrote:Silly scare-mongering headline. Trident has been continuously deployed aboard RN SSBN submarines for years.
Yes those where my thoughts, doesn't make sense.
Whilst agreeing that the article is typical media shite, where does it say that Trident hasn't been continuously deployed for years ?
In the headline. ;)

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Re: Trident

Post by shark bait »

jonas wrote: Whilst agreeing that the article is typical media shite, where does it say that Trident hasn't been continuously deployed for years ? Seems to me that you are reading something into the article that isn't there.
"Deploy Trident for First Time"
The royal navy has continually deployed nuclear weapons since 1969. This deployment would hardly be first time. At least that's what the title suggested to me
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Re: Trident

Post by jonas »

shark bait wrote:
jonas wrote: Whilst agreeing that the article is typical media shite, where does it say that Trident hasn't been continuously deployed for years ? Seems to me that you are reading something into the article that isn't there.
"Deploy Trident for First Time"
The royal navy has continually deployed nuclear weapons since 1969. This deployment would hardly be first time. At least that's what the title suggested to me
Yes I suppose that's fine if you only read the headline and disregard the article itself ;)

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Re: Trident

Post by RetroSicotte »

Unfortunately the point is 90% of people opposed to Trident won't read any further and will simply use it to further their "useless weapons we do nothing with" agenda.

Thats why it's quite awful misreporting, almost assuredly run by someone wanting to colour the facts.

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Re: Trident

Post by jonas »

RetroSicotte wrote:Unfortunately the point is 90% of people opposed to Trident won't read any further and will simply use it to further their "useless weapons we do nothing with" agenda.

Thats why it's quite awful misreporting, almost assuredly run by someone wanting to colour the facts.
Exactly, but you would hope it wouldn't happen on these threads but unfortunately is obviously does. As far as the media misreporting is concerned, having just read the 'armchair soldiers' post on Tornado, I looked at the link he provided. When you see the MOD's reply to all the usual nonsense, it does make you wonder where these so called defence correspondents get their info from.

Or is it a case of sitting in the office and making up a good story for the general public, most of whom have very little interest in defence and even less knowledge.

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Re: Trident

Post by seaspear »

I seem to recall P.M Thatcher,s threat of the use of a nuclear response to a Soviet invasion was considered controversial at the time ,but with an estimated fifty thousand tanks from a belligerent ,that was the only credible threat the U.K had ,and whether this threat prevented war is something many will disagree on , and certainly Russia has changed under Mr Putin and indicated it does not want further cuts to nuclear weapons .

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Re: Trident

Post by Enigmatically »

The standard of defence reporting does tend to be abysmal. I think the phrases that will help understand that article is

They are plotting a huge nuclear warfare simulation with fellow NATO members

And later it talks about not testing conventional or nuclear warfare but the transition to nuclear.

So I suspect it is a completely shore based exercise with military and political leaders to test the strategic constructs and decision making processes. meanwhile LET Smudger Smith and Taffy Jones and their mates will be blissfully unaware or unconcerned at an unknown location somewhere beneath the oggin

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