SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

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SKB
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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SKB »

"American tech" is the name given to a more expensive but less capable downgrade kit available from foreign non-Commonwealth sources. :mrgreen:

inch
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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by inch »

Lol,20 UK boats ,they don't half tell whoppers lol,lucky if Australia actually sticks with program and doesn't just stick with Virginia class and updates,also UK more likely to build only 6 replacements going of track records,with proviso that new class is twice as powerful garbage line ,now out of the two 1) UK building 20 or 2) UK building 6 which would you believe more mmh🤔

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Zeno »

It may depend on if the future submarine being acquired by the R.A.N is better value than the Virginia class thats the challenge

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »

SW1 wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 21:45 I suspect if there is a vls it will be america. I think there was also mention that the CIC system will be america.
Well remembered, I suspect that is what they are talking about.

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

Jdam wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 22:08
SW1 wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 21:45 I suspect if there is a vls it will be america. I think there was also mention that the CIC system will be america.
Well remembered, I suspect that is what they are talking about.
I also suspect if we do end up with hypersonic missiles this is the platform on which they will be based!

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

A second source, putting the number at around twelve.
The exact number of new submarines the Navy will order is still to be decided, but military chiefs are understood to want the current fleet of six subs to be roughly doubled in light of growing global threats.
Though still not a publication I'd consider particularly credible on defence matters.... To put it mildly...

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk-double-subm ... ia-2206620


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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Dobbo »

It does seem that there is widespread reporting that the navy (ie not the government) want the SSN fleet to be “at least” doubled, ideally increased to 20.

Who knows how long that lasts, but anything in the region of 12 SSN’s would be a significant step forwards, but that has to be matched by for example the T83 and all that goes with that - all of which costs serious money.

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Fr0sty125 »

It seems like this might be a very significant shift in defence strategy. Just as in 97 it was decided carriers were required for power projection it looks like the decision has been made that a shift to SSN is the answer to balancing power in the Pacific and asia.

I wonder if the SSN AUKUS will also have the same systems in both RN and RAN version?

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Mercator »

Fr0sty125 wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 23:28 It seems like this might be a very significant shift in defence strategy. Just as in 97 it was decided carriers were required for power projection it looks like the decision has been made that a shift to SSN is the answer to balancing power in the Pacific and asia.

I wonder if the SSN AUKUS will also have the same systems in both RN and RAN version?
One of the Australian think tank guys said that they would be identical. Don't know how well informed he was. I do think that if we want to truly embrace the benefits of a large user base, we do need to commit to as much commonality as possible. If we truly are committing ourselves to tech sharing, there is no particular reason why we cannot be in each other's supply chains to the point that sharing a common weapons and combat system (in particular) would not hurt UK or US industry in any significant way, especially with the trend towards open architecture software systems. With weapons, all that's needed is a software update that allows everyone else's weapons to be fired interchangeably. I would not think that's too hard.

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SKB »


(Sky News) 14th March 2023
U.S President Joe Biden, UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and the Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese discuss the Australia-United Kingdom-United States (AUKUS) partnership at the Naval Base Point Loma, San Diego.

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SouthernOne »

matt00773 wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 21:37
Jdam wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 21:12 This would be the most serious change in direction under this government (increase rather than cuts). :shock:

Even if you said the 20 in total, that means 4 would be Dreadnought plus another 16 as attack subs, that still more than double what we have now.

I mean Wallace did say that maybe we needed more subs a while ago but I never expected anything to come of it. It will be interesting to see if this comes together, I have my reservations that we will ever hit that number. There are a few elections till the Astute's start to go out of service and in that time there is a lot of work to do to be able to run that amount of subs again.

Side question does a lot of American tech go into the Astute's?
My expectation is that the "American tech" thing is just lip service to the 1958 UK/US technology agreement. In my mind this is effectively a UK submarine that will be shared with Australia in the same way as the Type 26 frigate.

I think the number includes both UK and Australia but wouldn't speculate any further.
But the RN and RAN don't "share" the Type 26. There are significant differences between the City and Hunter classes, in systems, design and their intended roles.

The Type 26s use the USN mk 45 and mk 41, so probably an indicator of even higher levels of US technology in the UK's future submarine fleet.

An extract from the media release:

"Australia’s future SSN – which we are calling “SSN-AUKUS” – will be a state-of-the-art platform designed to leverage the best of submarine technology from all three nations. SSN-AUKUS will be based upon the United Kingdom’s next-generation SSN design while incorporating cutting edge U.S. submarine technologies, and will be built and deployed by both Australia and the United Kingdom."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... ubmarines/

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Mercator »

More of the briefing notes emerge:

Image

Clears up my earlier query. Looks like a joint combat system, amongst other things.
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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SouthernOne »

Mercator wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 05:51 More of the briefing notes emerge:

Image

Clears up my earlier query. Looks like a joint combat system, amongst other things.
It will be interesting to see how similar the SSN(X) and AUKUS boats will be. I suspect, "very similar."

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

Fr0sty125 wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 23:28 It seems like this might be a very significant shift in defence strategy. Just as in 97 it was decided carriers were required for power projection it looks like the decision has been made that a shift to SSN is the answer to balancing power in the Pacific and asia.

I wonder if the SSN AUKUS will also have the same systems in both RN and RAN version?
I think the U.K. PM mentioned that the U.K. and AUS boats would be identical.

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

Dobbo wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 23:08 Who knows how long that lasts, but anything in the region of 12 SSN’s would be a significant step forwards, but that has to be matched by for example the T83 and all that goes with that - all of which costs serious money.
12 sounds reasonable, but let’s not pretend that the rest of the naval budget will not get pillaged to pay for it. Not saying it’s the wrong thing to do, but there is no doubt in my mind that we are heading towards a RN surface fleet of about 30 ships larger than 20m.
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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by inch »

Just reading the outline of the future plans if go ahead ? It's saying rolls Royce would be building all the reactors for the future submarine fleets UK/Australian boats ,does that mean that UK would be building all the back end of the submarines then shipping back end to Australia , which I wouldn't think a safe procedure incase of accident transporting ?,or is Australia going to ship blocks they built to UK ie the middle block cic and front end blocks , with the new vertical launch modules from America sailed to barrow and attached to the back end reactor blocks,and if so is Australia going to build all the middle blocks and front end ,how's this going to work basically?
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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Fr0sty125 »

Probably a reactor compartment shipped to Australia. But it might be the whole aft section it might be just the reactor both are feasible.

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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SKB »

Thread name changed from SSN(R) to SSN-AUKUS.
And keep it RN related news please. Australia has it's own thread.
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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

SKB wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 10:01 Thread name changed from SSN(R) to SSN-AUKUS.
And keep it RN related news please. Australia has it's own thread.
Why 2040s?

The first of class is due to be delivered to RN in the 2030s.

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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SKB »

Oops. Forgot that bit. Fixed.

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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

inch wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 08:54 does that mean that UK would be building all the back end of the submarines then shipping back end to Australia , which I wouldn't think a safe procedure incase of accident transporting
Welll - the UK operates four out of the 13 nuclear transport ships available worldwide - we have some expertise at moving nuclear materials and assemblies.

One is operated by the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority (a non-departmental public body of the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy) and three by Pacific Nuclear Transport Ltd. Some are only designed to carry fuel (new or spent), but some are designed to carry assemblies. Presumably only the reactor compartment would need to be transported, not a complete hull section
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Re: SSN(R) Future Astute Replacement (2040s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by inch »

Caribbean wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 11:38
inch wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 08:54 does that mean that UK would be building all the back end of the submarines then shipping back end to Australia , which I wouldn't think a safe procedure incase of accident transporting
Welll - the UK operates four out of the 13 nuclear transport ships available worldwide - we have some expertise at moving nuclear materials and assemblies.

One is operated by the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority (a non-departmental public body of the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy) and three by Pacific Nuclear Transport Ltd. Some are only designed to carry fuel (new or spent), but some are designed to carry assemblies. Presumably only the reactor compartment would need to be transported, not a complete hull section
Well you learn something every day I quess ,I would not have thought moving nuclear reactors half way round the world would be the optimal pathway , except I grant you in a complete operational submarine

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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Zeno »

Definition of a forum website is where posters can post comments about a particular issue or topic and reply to others posts ,if we just cut and paste news here it would be boring since quite often journalists don't have a clue what they are talking about and many of the posters have very informed views and knowledge ,since the SSN designing and building of is a point of interest because its going to be supplied to two navies in identical form or thereabouts it should be ok to keep on the one thread and save duplicate posts just add (R.A.N) after (R.N) after all it is an AUKUS submarine
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