SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

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Caribbean
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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 03 Oct 2023, 06:22 We also can’t quantify at this point how much more efficient the production process will be after the investment in infrastructure has been completed.

An increase in construction efficiency of 20%-30% would make a big difference over the course of the program.
The new construction hall and an additional 5000 staff would seem to indicate plans to increase capacity to allow at least one, if not two additional concurrent builds
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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Caribbean wrote: 03 Oct 2023, 09:57 The new construction hall and an additional 5000 staff would seem to indicate plans to increase capacity to allow at least one, if not two additional concurrent builds
Add another 2 concurrent hulls to this sort of capacity and a 18 month drumbeat could be possible.
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Jensy
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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

Caribbean wrote: 03 Oct 2023, 09:57
Poiuytrewq wrote: 03 Oct 2023, 06:22 We also can’t quantify at this point how much more efficient the production process will be after the investment in infrastructure has been completed.

An increase in construction efficiency of 20%-30% would make a big difference over the course of the program.
The new construction hall and an additional 5000 staff would seem to indicate plans to increase capacity to allow at least one, if not two additional concurrent builds
I assume this is the new Ramsden Dock Facility?

Didn't think its purpose was to actually assemble boats, rather to improve the efficiency of the production process by knocking out sections. It's not exactly conveniently located for moving an entire submarine to the boat lift outside the Devonshire Dock Hall.
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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

Jensy wrote: 04 Oct 2023, 23:29
Caribbean wrote: 03 Oct 2023, 09:57
Poiuytrewq wrote: 03 Oct 2023, 06:22 We also can’t quantify at this point how much more efficient the production process will be after the investment in infrastructure has been completed.

An increase in construction efficiency of 20%-30% would make a big difference over the course of the program.
The new construction hall and an additional 5000 staff would seem to indicate plans to increase capacity to allow at least one, if not two additional concurrent builds
I assume this is the new Ramsden Dock Facility?

Didn't think its purpose was to actually assemble boats, rather to improve the efficiency of the production process by knocking out sections. It's not exactly conveniently located for moving an entire submarine to the boat lift outside the Devonshire Dock Hall.
I assumed that it was for manufacturing complete hull blocks for final assembly in the existing build hall. Particularly the reactor sections, which are going to be built in the UK and installed as complete "black box" units in the Australian yards.

The ability to build all the blocks concurrently & then move them into the main build hall for final assembly is bound to improve throughput (i.e. "drumbeat")
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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

USN keen to leverage the industrial base of the three countries in support of the programme, the US industrial sub base under severe pressure with the Columbia and Virginia, current plan to increase rate to 2 per year in five years, currently only averaging 1.2 Virginia's per year.
Rear Adm. Scott Pappano, the program executive officer for strategic submarines, recently told Defense News at an additive manufacturing summit in Danville, Virginia, that the Columbia-class ballistic missile submarine program is tightly linked to its British counterpart, the Dreadnought program. Of particular importance is the bilateral collaboration in casting metal pieces for their common missile tubes.
Castings is among the weakest sectors in the U.S. submarine-industrial base, and something the U.S. Navy is actively trying to address by pouring money into vendors’ workforces and facilities, while also looking for new technologies — like additive manufacturing — to supplement traditional vendors’ output.
Pappano said his office, which also manages overall submarine-industrial base issues, has been looking at ways to use the U.K. castings sector and leverage the country’s castings suppliers.

And Rear Adm. Jon Rucker, the program executive officer for attack submarines, said an existing workforce cross-training program on the Columbia and Dreadnought classes would be expanded to attack subs as well. Under that program workers from the General Dynamics Electric Boat shipyard in Connecticut and BAE Systems’ Barrow yard in England exchange places to ensure they’re both performing welding, nondestructive testing and other activities to the same standards.

Whether the USN will obtain the necessary Congressional approval is an open question as expect will need exception to the Buy American Act and ITA Regulations.


https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2023/ ... -sub-work/

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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Top level very important investment!!

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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

Well, if MRSS is any bigger than the Albion Class they won't be dry-docking at Devonport.
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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 10 Nov 2023, 12:37 Top level very important investment!!

There was a rumour that bulwark is stuck in dry dock because there is v boat waiting to go into dock blocking here exit.

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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ian Hall »

AUKUS First – Babcock, Bechtel Australia And HII Sign MOU

In an AUKUS-first collaboration, Babcock Australasia (Babcock), Bechtel Australia and HII (NYSE: HII) have agreed to work together to identify opportunities to leverage their complementary set of skills and experience to establish and support Australia’s conventionally armed nuclear-powered submarine program.

Naval News Staff 14 Dec 2023


https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -sign-mou/

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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by RunningStrong »

Rolls Royce site to open in Cardiff? Supposedly on AUKUS work. Not far from Bristol but not a hotbed of submarine, nuclear or defence in itself.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... e-28458142
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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

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Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

Post by calculus »

I would think the revelation that a senior Australian politician was recruited to spy for a foreign intelligence agency to gather information on AUKUS would give pause to senior officials in London and Washington looking to share each nation's most critical defence technology.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-68420795
      https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 024-02-28/
        https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... -operation

        I have to wonder what impact this will have on the pact.

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        Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

        Post by R686 »

        calculus wrote: 01 Mar 2024, 17:49 I would think the revelation that a senior Australian politician was recruited to spy for a foreign intelligence agency to gather information on AUKUS would give pause to senior officials in London and Washington looking to share each nation's most critical defence technology.
          https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-68420795
            https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 024-02-28/
              https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... -operation

              I have to wonder what impact this will have on the pact.
              Certainly, causing a ruffle over here to say who it was.

              There was a segment on 60 minutes tonight about it and appears from what was said nothing can be done because the person didn't break any laws at the time. hence why the person is not being named.

              There were a couple of veiled hints in the interview that a good investigative reporter would get a good idea on who it was if they did some digging.

              https://9now.nine.com.au/60-minutes/spi ... dd5f3ce635

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              Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

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              Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

              Post by Dobbo »

              Some further news stories this week on or related to this programme (eg in the FT which is paywalled).

              The UK appears to be referring to this as the SSN-A.

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              Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

              Post by Poiuytrewq »

              Another member?

              https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... n-trudeau/.

              Canada could join Aukus defence pact as Trudeau considers nuclear sub patrols in Arctic waters…….The Canadian prime minister says he has already held ‘excellent conversations’ with the US, UK and Australia over joining the alliance

              Canada is considering joining the Aukus pact and believes it may need nuclear submarines to patrol its Arctic waters, Justin Trudeau has said.

              The Canadian prime minister said on Monday that he had already held “excellent conversations” with the US, UK and Australia over joining the alliance.

              Aukus, launched in September 2021, is a defence alliance focused on sharing nuclear submarine technology, which in 2023 announced intentions to help Australia build its first vessels.

              Canada would become the fourth member of the pact, which is now looking at sharing information on technology, AI and the construction of new weapons.

              The country has been floated as a possible contender for membership by several high-profile figures from member states, including Boris Johnson, who was in office as UK prime minister when the alliance launched.

              Mr Trudeau said it was “really important that allies, particularly across the Indo-Pacific, work together in a stronger and tighter ways”, in a nod towards the alliance’s threat from China.

              Supporters of Canada’s membership have said that the country’s supply of critical natural minerals would allow the UK, US and Australia to be less reliant on exports from China.

              The announcement came as Mr Trudeau launched a new defence policy document that included calls for the purchase of conventionally powered submarines and left open the prospect of a nuclear model.

              “We will be looking at what type of submarines are most appropriate for Canada’s responsibility in protecting the longest coastline in the world, and certainly the longest Arctic coastline in the world,” he said.

              The paper set out significant investment in the Canadian armed forces but did not establish how the country planned to reach the Nato defence spending target of two per cent of GDP.

              In February 2024, Mr Johnson and Liz Truss, his successor, backed a paper from the Legatum Institute calling for Canada’s membership to be fast-tracked to “strengthen the West’s collective defences”.

              Mr Johnson said Canada was the “most obvious next candidate” because it had “fought – often heroically – for freedom”.
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              Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

              Post by SD67 »

              Poiuytrewq wrote: 08 Apr 2024, 22:36 Another member?

              https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... n-trudeau/.

              Canada could join Aukus defence pact as Trudeau considers nuclear sub patrols in Arctic waters…….The Canadian prime minister says he has already held ‘excellent conversations’ with the US, UK and Australia over joining the alliance

              Canada is considering joining the Aukus pact and believes it may need nuclear submarines to patrol its Arctic waters, Justin Trudeau has said.

              ...

              “We will be looking at what type of submarines are most appropriate for Canada’s responsibility in protecting the longest coastline in the world, and certainly the longest Arctic coastline in the world,” he said.
              Does that mean all the manuals now need to be bilingual?
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              Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

              Post by Markam »

              AUKUS is all about China and helping Pacific allies get up to speed with the US/UK technologically, so Japan is a natural fit. Japan lags behind in non-conventional defence so the 2nd pillar is an appropriate stage to join.

              You can argue they also could use a nuclear sub but a military project that uses nuclear could be seen as controversial (i don't see the fuss as Japan has had nuclear plants for a while).

              If the Canadians want submarines then I guess they will have to join the line! If they want them sooner maybe batch 2 Astute is an idea worth floating...? It cannot be that much worse than the Virginia boats the Australians are getting pre-AUKUS.

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              Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

              Post by inch »

              Just can't see USA letting more nuclear technology elsewhere after the Australian kick off ,I'm more inclined to think that Canada will buy a french sub design that Australia was going to buy ,but never say never on a nuclear submarine I guess ,but don't think that going to fly with the cost for Canada tbh or American agreement
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              Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

              Post by Jensy »

              Markam wrote: 09 Apr 2024, 12:08 AUKUS is all about China and helping Pacific allies get up to speed with the US/UK technologically, so Japan is a natural fit. Japan lags behind in non-conventional defence so the 2nd pillar is an appropriate stage to join.

              You can argue they also could use a nuclear sub but a military project that uses nuclear could be seen as controversial (i don't see the fuss as Japan has had nuclear plants for a while).

              If the Canadians want submarines then I guess they will have to join the line! If they want them sooner maybe batch 2 Astute is an idea worth floating...? It cannot be that much worse than the Virginia boats the Australians are getting pre-AUKUS.
              Back in the dying days of the Cold War, the US was far from keen on the Canadians getting SSNs. Saw it as a distraction, of limited funds, from other NATO and NORAD commitments.

              Whilst there might have been a change in attitudes, in both nations, the Canadians are starting from a point of four, fast approaching 35 years old diesel subs. Even replacing those modest numbers would require a massive increase in funding and scope for their military. The Australians at least had the insane price of those French Barracuda SSKs to get their head around such sums.... also the PRC to sharpen the mind.
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              Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

              Post by Markam »

              The natural progression is that Canada starts the process of buying French submarines, only to be sideswiped again by the AUKUS.

              The French, despite selling submarines like hotcakes these days, throw a hissy fit and leave NATO to form an EU defence initiative that nobody else joins.

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              Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

              Post by Markam »

              https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2024/ ... hnologies/

              Some comments were quite distraught about the comments in this article about the reactor being a US design, potentially sideswiping UK industry, at least for the design.

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              Post by tomuk »

              Markam wrote: 16 Apr 2024, 15:24 https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2024/ ... hnologies/

              Some comments were quite distraught about the comments in this article about the reactor being a US design, potentially sideswiping UK industry, at least for the design.
              All UK built subs have a US designed reactor, they always have. Built by Rolls Royce and have had a more optimised homegrown core as time has gone on. I'm completely comfortable that PWR3 is based on a newer American design.

              Where I'm concerned is further along the driveline, turbines, generators, motors etc. Although the UK has let these heavy industries atrophy, a combined submarine and surface ship requirement could keep things ticking along.

              The other area of greater concern is the combat system an sonar where AIUI the UK has always had an advantage maybe not in brute strength or expenditure but in ingenuity and effect.
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              Re: SSN-AUKUS Future Astute Replacement (2030s) (RN) [News Only]

              Post by Markam »

              https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... uv-system/

              Is the concept of the Submarine Carrier being revived in the modern day?

              Not quite, but an interesting concept that gives Submarines even more importance than they already have.
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