Because they are both knackered?
Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
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Unfortunately there is not a “General” thread for RN Submarines, but the surplus crew may be unlikely to be available for either Astute Class SSNs or SSN(R), if as I suspect they may be required to facilitate the return of Vanguard.
I suppose the bad news is you are absolutely correct - more submariners will be needed if the RN wishes to expand its fleet to 10 SSN.wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑03 Sep 2022, 15:5510 SSN for RN sounds great but first RN will need to increase number of crew, whether improved cres recruitment or retention). At the moment the RN can only crew six boats, with Trenchant and Talent decommissioned in May before Anson was commissioned this week.Dobbo wrote: ↑03 Sep 2022, 13:00 Some comments from the RUSI paper on what might be deliverable with a 3% of GDP defence budget. Irrespective of whether you think 3% is right or deliverable it provides interesting benchmarking.
https://static.rusi.org/354-OP-from-fam ... nal1_0.pdf
Comments on SSN(R)
“Accelerate next-gen SSN, improved weapon systems, aim at 10 submarines”
“Carrier + FCAS long-range missiles, prompt-strike hypersonic for SSN”
“• In announcing to NATO’s June summit that the UK was now on track to be spending 2.5% of GDP on defence by 2030, Boris Johnson referred to the additional costs of AUKUS for the UK. This is a reference to the need for serious extra spending on a new generation of SSN to replace the Astute class – the SSN-R. Depending on the extent to which Australia decides to develop its own new SSN in cooperation with the UK, it is possible that large parts of this programme could be a joint venture, potentially including production, weapon systems, training and infrastructure. The added funding included here would allow the MoD to proceed at pace to build this new generation of SSN. It could also be used to increase the size of the SSN fleet from 7 (the current level) to 10. This would increase the UK’s ability to deploy worldwide, including in the Indo-Pacific, while maintaining the levels necessary to counter Russian threats in the North Atlantic and the Arctic.”
The good news is that: (1) the Australians and Americans will (or likely are) face the same issues on crewing so there is an incentive to reduce the number of crew needed; and (2) when the design of SSN(R) is fairly mature - this has to be quite soon to keep up the build rate post SSBN - there is a reasonable period of time to take steps to resolve the issue.
We can speculate till the cows come home but until the review for Australia comes in next year we won't know ,Im not sure if a submarine can be produced in some similar fashion to the f35 program in a basic form and modified for customers
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I note ot says "new" jobs and "majority" at Barrow. That means that over 600 new jobs at Barrow, possibly more.
Lets us hope that these additional workers enables BAE to build the remaining Astutes and then the Dreabdought SSBN's quicker so that hopefully when they switch focus back to SSNR, that they can build more than seven......
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... and potentially more in surface ship building as well
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.