N.A.T.O. News & Discussion

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
Lord Jim
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Re: N.A.T.O. News & Discussion

Post by Lord Jim »

Now we just need to get Germany and the Benelux countries to do the same.

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xav
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NATO countries sign MoU on Maritime Battle Decisive Munitions initiative
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Together with seven other countries, Belgium signed the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for the NATO Maritime Battle Decisive Munitions (MBDM) program in order to achieve the same objective in the maritime field, the Belgian Defense Directorate General Material Resources (DGMR) announced today.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... nitiative/

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SKB
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Re: N.A.T.O. News & Discussion

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(Forces TV) 5th August 2019
Forces TV has been given rare access to a mission aboard one of NATO’s “eyes in the sky”. A fleet of Airborne Warning and Control Surveillance aircraft or AWACS is based at Geilenkirchen in Germany. Since Moscow's annexation of Crimea in 2014, AWACS patrols have supported NATO assurance measures to keep airspace safe over countries near Russia like the Baltic States and Poland.

Lord Jim
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Re: N.A.T.O. News & Discussion

Post by Lord Jim »

I visited Geilenkirchen back in the 1980s then the NATO AWACS force e=was being set up. I was living in the Netherland at AFCENT in Brunssum and we hade a family friend who was a Colonel in the USAF station at SHAPE near Mons working in the programme office there. Seeing the E-3s on the inside and outside was quite impressive. Geilenkirchen used to be a quiet little place where I went to the PX to get things I could get in the AFCENT shop, but things changed quite a bit once the AWACS moved in for obvious reasons.

abc123
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Lord Jim wrote:I visited Geilenkirchen back in the 1980s then the NATO AWACS force e=was being set up. I was living in the Netherland at AFCENT in Brunssum and we hade a family friend who was a Colonel in the USAF station at SHAPE near Mons working in the programme office there. Seeing the E-3s on the inside and outside was quite impressive. Geilenkirchen used to be a quiet little place where I went to the PX to get things I could get in the AFCENT shop, but things changed quite a bit once the AWACS moved in for obvious reasons.
I wonder, who payed for these E-3s? I mean, I know it's NATO, but did countries like USA, UK and France that have their own AWACS?
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SKB
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Re: N.A.T.O. News & Discussion

Post by SKB »

The video says (around 2:55) that 16 countries club together to pay for the 14 AWACS planes based at Geilenkirchen.

Lord Jim
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Post by Lord Jim »

Yes the E-3s like the C-17s were bought as a NATO fleet with crews being supplied by its members, with the UK the exception unless on exchange. WE kept our as a UK assets but also linked it into the NATO fleet. I believe the French have done the same. Officially all the NATO E-3s are owned by Luxemburg as that is the country they are registered with.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote:WE kept our as a UK assets but also linked it into the NATO fleet. I believe the French have done the same.
Same sort of thing for joint ground surveillance... which (whether that is a reason for it or not) has been incredibly slow in its progress.
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abc123
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Post by abc123 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Lord Jim wrote:WE kept our as a UK assets but also linked it into the NATO fleet. I believe the French have done the same.
Same sort of thing for joint ground surveillance... which (whether that is a reason for it or not) has been incredibly slow in its progress.
Indeed. Strange. And shame, Sentinels are nice aircrafts. Very useful.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

SW1
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Re: N.A.T.O. News & Discussion

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https://www.defensenews.com/land/2019/1 ... -cold-war/

The Defender 2020 in Europe is set to be the third-largest military exercise on the continent since the Cold War, according to Lt. Gen. Chris Cavoli, the U.S. Army Europe commander.

The division-scaled exercise will test the Army’s ability to deliver a force from “fort in the United States to port in the United States,” and then to ports in Europe, and from there to operational areas throughout Europe from Germany to Poland to the Baltic states and other Eastern European nations, Nordic countries and even Georgia, Cavoli told Defense News in an exclusive interview focused on the big event.

While the Army has gone into some detail about Defender 2020 in the Pacific, U.S. Army Europe has been tight-lipped during the coordination of its version.

Additionally, Defender will incorporate joint forcible entry exercises to include three parachute assaults in various locations, and the MDO concept will come into play with those as well, he added.

While the Army’s European-based Multidomain Task Force won’t be fully established by Defender 2020, the service plans to take the parts of it that are available and use surrogates from other parts of the Army to help rehearse during the JWA.

“It’s going to allow me to figure out how I want to employ it in this theater and how we want to shape it exactly,” Cavoli said.

Additionally, the Army will practice pulling out its Army Prepositioned Stock and exercising it as part of Defender, Cavoli noted.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Post by ArmChairCivvy »

More unruliness on its way?

"Montenegro remains deeply divided among those seeking closer ties with traditional Slavic allies Serbia and Russia, and those who view Montenegro as an independent state allied with the West.

The long-ruling pro-Western Democratic Party of Socialists was defeated in an August election by a pro-Serb coalition whose government is set to be voted into office during a parliament session next week. The DPS-led government defied Serbia and Russia to join NATO in 2017.

The outgoing authorities have accused Serbia of aiding pro-Serb political forces in Montenegro with the goal of installing allies in power and regaining influence." - from euronews
- Russian coup failed
- I guess the Serbs were able to look more local, and hence meddle better?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: N.A.T.O. News & Discussion

Post by Gtal »

The potential medium to long term damage to NATO stemming fom the ongoing enlargement drive, which is based on a simplistic short term approach driven by the desire ro piss of the Russians and the insatiable thirst of the US military industrial sector to "open up" new markets for their produce, are very real and should be especially worrying for the UK.

How is NATO going to ensure the political, social and economic stability of Montenegro when there are significant internal divisions in it's society.
What will NATO do, or be able to do, if that stability fails?
Most importantly, what are the NATO memberstates going to be willing to do?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Gtal wrote:ongoing enlargement drive
Anyone in the queue?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Gtal
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Re: N.A.T.O. News & Discussion

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ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Gtal wrote:ongoing enlargement drive
Anyone in the queue?
Look how many countries have been added in the last 20 years, and if you asked Raytheon, countries like Ukraine, Georgia and in their wildest dreams Belarus and Serbia should be but on the agenda as soon as possible, no matter the internal situation.
But the further east/south we go, the more pronounced the internal fractures appear, that's what worries me.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Gtal wrote: Ukraine, Georgia and in their wildest dreams Belarus and Serbia
There's a de facto moratorium with the first two (Putin throws enough toys out every time there even a hint of movement in that direction).
- interesting to see where the other two are headed (in the longer term)
- I am enjoying the wildest geopolitical conspiracy theories coming out of Belgrad based outfits... while the fun lasts. Reading through them leaves no doubt who is picking up the bills (and planting the 'gist' for the stories, which will be further edited into versions that support each other and thus gain 'mind share')
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The EU meeting where they said they will review Turkey's actions (not just Brexit, as the press seem to think) is only a week away, here is an account from the warm-up round in the NATO foreign ministers' meeting (I chose a Greek source to get an unredacted version):
https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/12/02/t ... eces-nato/
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
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Re: N.A.T.O. News & Discussion

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https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... o-nato-ags

Senior UK defence sources told Janes on 19 April that it was likely that RAF image analysts, mission planning staff, UAV pilots, and maintenance personnel would be assigned to Sigonella to work alongside their NATO colleagues. The UK could also make a financial contribution to the running costs of the RQ-4Ds. By contributing to the costs of AGS, the UK would gain influence over operational tasking, technology enhancements, and allow the RQ-4Ds to support UK training exercises. This would be subject to ratification by NATO partners and the UK government.

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whitelancer
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Hardly going to replace Sentinel.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Post by ArmChairCivvy »

I wonder if there is any 'peeping over the Russo-Ukrainian border' on the go. Satellites can do a lot, but...
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Post by Lord Jim »

I suppose training flight could innocently cross Ukraine, do we know the range of this things sensors? What actually are its sensors, SAR, EO, something new?

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Post by J. Tattersall »

NATO’s Warfighting Capstone Concept: anticipating the changing character of war
https://www.nato.int/docu/review/articl ... index.html

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