Future cruise/anti-ship missiles
Posted: 09 Jul 2021, 08:38
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Needs a re-life, but its a good question. The UK is after a long range, stealthy, subsonic missile (admittedly the French want a medium range supersonic missile for other reasons). Why not an updated Storm Shadow (its already stealthy, if the RAF want it fully fuelled it has the range).The engine is still good. Just a new sensor required etc.RunningStrong wrote:Why is Storm Shadow (or the French Naval version) unsuitable for this requirement?
I'd have thought that the French MdCN version would make a decent platform for a long-range surface launched anti-ship missile. The additional avionics would add to the weight, but that could be compensated for with a smaller warhead, 450kg seems like total overkill for an AShM.Timmymagic wrote:Needs a re-life, but its a good question. The UK is after a long range, stealthy, subsonic missile (admittedly the French want a medium range supersonic missile for other reasons). Why not an updated Storm Shadow (its already stealthy, if the RAF want it fully fuelled it has the range).The engine is still good. Just a new sensor required etc.RunningStrong wrote:Why is Storm Shadow (or the French Naval version) unsuitable for this requirement?
Not sure how stealthy it is, it abandons most of the shaping that Storm Shadow has.Pseudo wrote:I'd have thought that the French MdCN version would make a decent platform for a long-range surface launched anti-ship missile.
I didn't realise that. In that case, I'd have thought that Storm Shadow with a booster would make a decent platform for a long-range surface launched anti-ship missile.Timmymagic wrote:Not sure how stealthy it is, it abandons most of the shaping that Storm Shadow has.Pseudo wrote:I'd have thought that the French MdCN version would make a decent platform for a long-range surface launched anti-ship missile.
MdCN based on Storm Shadow/ Apache missile technology which its in turn 30 years old. So yes you could make a long range ship missile out of it but expect it to rapidly loose effectiveness against near future threats.Pseudo wrote:I didn't realise that. In that case, I'd have thought that Storm Shadow with a booster would make a decent platform for a long-range surface launched anti-ship missile.Timmymagic wrote:Not sure how stealthy it is, it abandons most of the shaping that Storm Shadow has.Pseudo wrote:I'd have thought that the French MdCN version would make a decent platform for a long-range surface launched anti-ship missile.
To all intents and purposes it was a new missile. The jet engines used haven't significantly changed and the guidance and sensors were new.J. Tattersall wrote:MdCN based on Storm Shadow/ Apache missile technology which its in turn 30 years old. So yes you could make a long range ship missile out of it but expect it to rapidly loose effectiveness against near future threats.
I read something ages ago and I've forgot where that talked about the feasibility of an anti-ship missile that cruised at subsonic speeds to extend its range and then accelerated to high-supersonic or hypersonic speeds as it approached the target.Lord Jim wrote:I wonder if they are working on some sort of variable propulsion system for the missile, air breathing of coarse. It would be able to cruise a substantial distance, meeting the RN's desire for long range, or transit at a much higher velocity for anti ship work, or any combination in between. Obviously this would add cost but would this be outweighed by the flexibility granted?
Only images seen to date have been the 2 MBDA concepts. Neither does this. My money is on the Subsonic, stealthy, long range cruiser. The 2 top images here are the presumed FCASW shapes...Lord Jim wrote:I wonder if they are working on some sort of variable propulsion system for the missile, air breathing of coarse. It would be able to cruise a substantial distance, meeting the RN's desire for long range, or transit at a much higher velocity for anti ship work, or any combination in between. Obviously this would add cost but would this be outweighed by the flexibility granted?
FYI - The MBDA concept for speed is described as 'high supersonic' rather than 'hypersonic'. That means they're aiming for less than M5.0. The technical challenges are therefore dramatically simpler.abc123 wrote:About that future hypersonic missile- a pie in the sky
The stub wings in the picture I would think give a clue that its a) supersonic and b) designed to follow nap of the earth to target i.e a cruise missile.Timmymagic wrote:FYI - The MBDA concept for speed is described as 'high supersonic' rather than 'hypersonic'. That means they're aiming for less than M5.0. The technical challenges are therefore dramatically simpler.abc123 wrote:About that future hypersonic missile- a pie in the sky
This is also backed up by the fact that the French are looking at another totally new design, potentially hypersonic, to replace the ASMP-A missile. If FCASW was hypersonic they'd be using the same missile...
But surely they've two things they can use today, TLAM and Stormshadow.abc123 wrote:RN/RAF needs something they can use today
I meant against ships and from ships and aircrafts.J. Tattersall wrote:But surely they've two things they can use today, TLAM and Stormshadow.abc123 wrote:RN/RAF needs something they can use today
...and they do seem to use them.
Nevere mind that, hyper or high supersonic, problems are political nature, not technical.Ron5 wrote:The stub wings in the picture I would think give a clue that its a) supersonic and b) designed to follow nap of the earth to target i.e a cruise missile.Timmymagic wrote:FYI - The MBDA concept for speed is described as 'high supersonic' rather than 'hypersonic'. That means they're aiming for less than M5.0. The technical challenges are therefore dramatically simpler.abc123 wrote:About that future hypersonic missile- a pie in the sky
This is also backed up by the fact that the French are looking at another totally new design, potentially hypersonic, to replace the ASMP-A missile. If FCASW was hypersonic they'd be using the same missile...
I assume it's possible that it could be subsonic until close then accelerate?
But Surely they have Harpoon for that, and soon interim SSM.abc123 wrote:I meant against ships and from ships and aircrafts.J. Tattersall wrote:But surely they've two things they can use today, TLAM and Stormshadow.abc123 wrote:RN/RAF needs something they can use today
...and they do seem to use them.
Do they have? Not so sure about that, or at least the RN seems able to generate just one set at the time... For about 7-8 ships at Sea.J. Tattersall wrote:But Surely they have Harpoon for that, and soon interim SSM.abc123 wrote:I meant against ships and from ships and aircrafts.J. Tattersall wrote:But surely they've two things they can use today, TLAM and Stormshadow.abc123 wrote:RN/RAF needs something they can use today
...and they do seem to use them.
Spoken as a true civil servant.J. Tattersall wrote:But Surely they have Harpoon for that, and soon interim SSM.abc123 wrote:I meant against ships and from ships and aircrafts.J. Tattersall wrote:But surely they've two things they can use today, TLAM and Stormshadow.abc123 wrote:RN/RAF needs something they can use today
...and they do seem to use them.
JimLord Jim wrote:If we went for the latest Harpoon variant as the Interim AShM I am pretty sure it could be in service with the fleet by the endo of the year, as the T-23 would really only need a software update.