Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

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tomuk
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by tomuk »

Have any of you herd of CFM International the 50/50 joint venture between GE and Safran that has 39% share of the jet engine market?

Defiance
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Defiance »

tomuk wrote: 09 Feb 2022, 22:40 Have any of you herd of CFM International the 50/50 joint venture between GE and Safran that has 39% share of the jet engine market?
The trouble with CFM is collaborative work with the US gets ITAR restrictions slapped on it pretty quick. You can be sure France isn't going to want US IP infecting their flagship program, nobody wants ITAR messing with their program anymore.

M88 development financed by Rafale export is much more relevant for FCAS

Lord Jim
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Lord Jim »

It will be interesting to see how the French Engine compares to what Rolls Royce is developing for TEMPEST.

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Timmymagic »

Whilst Tempest seems to be growing in confidence...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/15/fr ... ast-sales/
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

I hope they don't ditch the Germans too quickly or else we'll get lumbered with them....
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Tempest414
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

I really can't see why Spain is getting into this mess surly they need F-35 b at some point they would have been much better off going with the UK and Italy and buying F-35 A & B plus E-2000 in small numbers to replace Harrier & F-18 and buying Tempest to replace E-2000

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Defiance »

Because their Typhoon work comes through Airbus who are on team FCAS/SCAF

SW1
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by SW1 »

Why would Spain need f35 at all?I would suggest eurofighter would suit there needs for a very very long time.

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

Yes Eurofighter will cover them for some time a limited buy of say 25 F-35b to cover off the Harrier for the navy seems a good option to me this would be a bit like the UK typhoon and F-35b until the next gen fighter comes along

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by SW1 »

Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:28 Yes Eurofighter will cover them for some time a limited buy of say 25 F-35b to cover off the Harrier for the navy seems a good option to me this would be a bit like the UK typhoon and F-35b until the next gen fighter comes along
They have a dozen harriers, its nearly pointless considering the expense.

inch
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by inch »

no no no please no German involvement ,the Germans are not wanted on tempest they are a total utter waste of space ,like running a marathon with 1/8;tonne of lead on your back , pointless, please France keep them

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Repulse »

SW1 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:52
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:28 Yes Eurofighter will cover them for some time a limited buy of say 25 F-35b to cover off the Harrier for the navy seems a good option to me this would be a bit like the UK typhoon and F-35b until the next gen fighter comes along
They have a dozen harriers, its nearly pointless considering the expense.
Would agree - If I was them I would be talking to Turkey about how to join up on a "carrier drone" platform.
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Tempest414
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

SW1 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:52
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:28 Yes Eurofighter will cover them for some time a limited buy of say 25 F-35b to cover off the Harrier for the navy seems a good option to me this would be a bit like the UK typhoon and F-35b until the next gen fighter comes along
They have a dozen harriers, its nearly pointless considering the expense.
I would say different a buy of 25 F-35B would allow them to say deploy 18 on the LHD as a light carrier or deploy along side the RN on 1 of our carriers

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by SW1 »

Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 15:26
SW1 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:52
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:28 Yes Eurofighter will cover them for some time a limited buy of say 25 F-35b to cover off the Harrier for the navy seems a good option to me this would be a bit like the UK typhoon and F-35b until the next gen fighter comes along
They have a dozen harriers, its nearly pointless considering the expense.
I would say different a buy of 25 F-35B would allow them to say deploy 18 on the LHD as a light carrier or deploy along side the RN on 1 of our carriers
It’s probably a 6b quid procurement and can’t see for the life of me what Spain would use it for.
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Repulse »

Even if Spain could afford the F35 (which it can't), the only way it would make sense is if they bought F35Bs for the air force also. But given the Spanish air force has less than 70 Tiffies and a similar number of Hornets this doesn't make much sense either, even the RAF couldn't afford to operate more than two fighter platforms.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

SW1 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 15:44
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 15:26
SW1 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:52
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:28 Yes Eurofighter will cover them for some time a limited buy of say 25 F-35b to cover off the Harrier for the navy seems a good option to me this would be a bit like the UK typhoon and F-35b until the next gen fighter comes along
They have a dozen harriers, its nearly pointless considering the expense.
I would say different a buy of 25 F-35B would allow them to say deploy 18 on the LHD as a light carrier or deploy along side the RN on 1 of our carriers
It’s probably a 6b quid procurement and can’t see for the life of me what Spain would use it for.
With this way of thinking why would Italy and UK want to operate F-35 along side Typhoon Spain has F-18 , Typhoon and Harrier so replacing F-18 and Harrier with 60 Typhoon and 25 F-35B would not be a big push. Spain has a carrier capable of operating 18 to 20 F-35 b

inch
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by inch »

Even though I definitely do not want Germany on tempest program ,to be fair to France I don't think France should be burdened with Germans as well , they can make a great fighter without them ,yes it will cost them loads but with after sales to Rafale customers it will ease the pain again like Rafale ,and The Germans should just have to buy either the French fcas , American offering or tempest ,

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Timmymagic »

Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 15:26I would say different a buy of 25 F-35B would allow them to say deploy 18 on the LHD as a light carrier or deploy along side the RN on 1 of our carriers
The smart move for the Spanish is a buy of 15 odd F-35B and come to an arrangement with the Italian Navy regarding training/facilities. Both will operate small fleets of B variants (with the Italian Air Force also operating a small fleet) and both operate them from similar sized ships.
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by topman »

Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 15:26
SW1 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:52
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:28 Yes Eurofighter will cover them for some time a limited buy of say 25 F-35b to cover off the Harrier for the navy seems a good option to me this would be a bit like the UK typhoon and F-35b until the next gen fighter comes along
They have a dozen harriers, its nearly pointless considering the expense.
I would say different a buy of 25 F-35B would allow them to say deploy 18 on the LHD as a light carrier or deploy along side the RN on 1 of our carriers

When was the last time the spanish navy deployed 18 aircraft? Or the Spanish air force for that matter?

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

topman wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 20:00
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 15:26
SW1 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:52
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:28 Yes Eurofighter will cover them for some time a limited buy of say 25 F-35b to cover off the Harrier for the navy seems a good option to me this would be a bit like the UK typhoon and F-35b until the next gen fighter comes along
They have a dozen harriers, its nearly pointless considering the expense.
I would say different a buy of 25 F-35B would allow them to say deploy 18 on the LHD as a light carrier or deploy along side the RN on 1 of our carriers

When was the last time the spanish navy deployed 18 aircraft? Or the Spanish air force for that matter?
If I was to be picky in 2019 the Spanish LHD deployed with 21 aircraft including 8 jets into the Baltic as the lead ship in 2020 it deployed with the same air-wing to the West coast of Africa

As for the airforce in 2019 it also deployed 20 aircraft including 16 jets 8 F-18's and 8 Typhoons on TLP

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by TheLoneRanger »

inch wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 18:32 Even though I definitely do not want Germany on tempest program ,to be fair to France I don't think France should be burdened with Germans as well , they can make a great fighter without them ,yes it will cost them loads but with after sales to Rafale customers it will ease the pain again like Rafale ,and The Germans should just have to buy either the French fcas , American offering or tempest ,
I want the French to be burdened with the Germans so that the FCAS programme fails completely or is massively comprimised so that it is a commerical failure .... and the Tempest programme is then free to pick up all the new commerical opportunities..

The French are commerical competitors - and most certainly not our friends ..

The French are making a bucket load of cash selling the Rafale now - and I want the UK to make that much cash ....

inch
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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by inch »

I hear what you are saying and yes I hope tempest is a success for all those taking part ,and yes France on this issue as many others is no friend of uk but I also think France will make it a success either with or without Germany , probably easier without in my view but ultimately France needs it to succeed as much as we need tempest in this country to succeed ,and Germany are a dead loss in my book

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by topman »

Tempest414 wrote: 19 Feb 2022, 09:40
topman wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 20:00
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 15:26
SW1 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:52
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:28 Yes Eurofighter will cover them for some time a limited buy of say 25 F-35b to cover off the Harrier for the navy seems a good option to me this would be a bit like the UK typhoon and F-35b until the next gen fighter comes along
They have a dozen harriers, its nearly pointless considering the expense.
I would say different a buy of 25 F-35B would allow them to say deploy 18 on the LHD as a light carrier or deploy along side the RN on 1 of our carriers

When was the last time the spanish navy deployed 18 aircraft? Or the Spanish air force for that matter?
If I was to be picky in 2019 the Spanish LHD deployed with 21 aircraft including 8 jets into the Baltic as the lead ship in 2020 it deployed with the same air-wing to the West coast of Africa

As for the airforce in 2019 it also deployed 20 aircraft including 16 jets 8 F-18's and 8 Typhoons on TLP
I'm not sure that counts. Last time i heard TLP was in Spain.

Anyway i admire your optimism.

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Re: Franco-German-Spanish FCAS/SCAF Programme News and Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

topman wrote: 19 Feb 2022, 17:03
Tempest414 wrote: 19 Feb 2022, 09:40
topman wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 20:00
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 15:26
SW1 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:52
Tempest414 wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 13:28 Yes Eurofighter will cover them for some time a limited buy of say 25 F-35b to cover off the Harrier for the navy seems a good option to me this would be a bit like the UK typhoon and F-35b until the next gen fighter comes along
They have a dozen harriers, its nearly pointless considering the expense.
I would say different a buy of 25 F-35B would allow them to say deploy 18 on the LHD as a light carrier or deploy along side the RN on 1 of our carriers

When was the last time the spanish navy deployed 18 aircraft? Or the Spanish air force for that matter?
If I was to be picky in 2019 the Spanish LHD deployed with 21 aircraft including 8 jets into the Baltic as the lead ship in 2020 it deployed with the same air-wing to the West coast of Africa

As for the airforce in 2019 it also deployed 20 aircraft including 16 jets 8 F-18's and 8 Typhoons on TLP
I'm not sure that counts. Last time i heard TLP was in Spain.

Anyway i admire your optimism.
quit however no one other than the US , France and the UK deploy more than 18 jets at a time dose not mean they should not be able to like Italy having 30 F-35b


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