UK Defence Forum

A third “Flagship for the Nation” (QEC) would be far more useful than 13 x Floating Gin Palaces at £250M a pop, even if (at a lower cost) ……… she was “FItted for, but not With” just about everything feasible.

Party central in the former hanger !!! then a spot of tennis on the flghtdeck tennis courts !!!

dmereifield wrote: ↑21 Jun 2021, 09:44

RichardIC wrote:

dmereifield wrote:If Boris wants it (and he has announced it, and he will be there in 12 months, and many years beyond), it will happen. And, it will be HMS or RFA, not HMY...

HMS Shitshow.

You've clearly realised that it is nothing more than a one-man vanity project. Will he be here in 12 months? Let's see.

And does he always get the vanity projects he wants? See Garden Bridge and Thames Estuary Airport.

Yes, he will be there in 12 months time. The Garden Bridge and Airport comparisons are hardly relevant; he was not PM then (bridge) nor does the budget require billions (airport)

Any updates?

RichardIC wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 13:59Any updates?

I think we can safely put the National Flagship programme in the terrible ideas bin and move on...

Ahhh we’ve just found the anti ship missile fund

RichardIC wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 13:59

dmereifield wrote: ↑21 Jun 2021, 09:44

RichardIC wrote:

dmereifield wrote:If Boris wants it (and he has announced it, and he will be there in 12 months, and many years beyond), it will happen. And, it will be HMS or RFA, not HMY...

HMS Shitshow.

You've clearly realised that it is nothing more than a one-man vanity project. Will he be here in 12 months? Let's see.

And does he always get the vanity projects he wants? See Garden Bridge and Thames Estuary Airport.

Yes, he will be there in 12 months time. The Garden Bridge and Airport comparisons are hardly relevant; he was not PM then (bridge) nor does the budget require billions (airport)

Any updates?

My statement was posted on 20 Jun 2021, at 19:42 - he was indeed PM 12 months later (on 20 Jun 2022) and the the project was still moving forward at that point. It was a 12 month guarentee I made no predictions on whether he would still be there in 12 months and 17 days....in fact, I'd like to thank Boris for holding out these past few weeks in order to avoid my embarrassment on this point. I imagine you were behind the no confidence vote a few weeks back just to try and say "I told you so"

I don't imagine his replacement will support this going forward. I do think they will be more willing to increase defence spending, however

Thank Christ for that....

Another Boris Johnson project bites the dust....

Did he ever manage to deliver any one of the projects he came up with?

Thank god for that. The very idea of National Flagship was ludicrous. If we are are goig to invest in ships to protect the undersea cables then that is about time - can't happen soon enough.

Timmymagic wrote: ↑04 Sep 2022, 12:34 Thank Christ for that....

Another Boris Johnson project bites the dust....

Did he ever manage to deliver any one of the projects he came up with?

To be fair to Boris and playing devils advocate, he inherited an absolute poisoned chalice, Mays 'White flag of surrender' Brexit deal to unpick and a once in a hundred years world wide pandemic, plus the economic shockwaves of a European war.


He might be blustering, but let's be clear, absolutely no sitting PM, no matter how capable, could survive this perfect storm of sh*t!

If the new PM can get to grips with the ongoing problems, then the Conservatives could remain in power for another decade.

If they can't, then Labour will get in and as things settle down naturally, ( they will, energy prices will have settled back in two years) they will claim the glory and probably stay in power for a couple of terms...

The main caveat being the Left Wing bounce back via coordinated Union action, an obvious attempt to destabilise the government and force a general election if there ever was one, might well blow up in Starmers face and keep Labour on the opposition benches for many years to come....

He seems terrified of the Left wing and he's clearly not in control of the situation....

Defo agree that when the energy prices drop that which ever colour is will claim the glory !! fingers crossed that all boloticians realised lyeing/deceiving joe public is a daft thing to do....all colours

Woo-bloody-hoo

Good thing it 'definitely 100% didn't' look like a yacht...

No surprise but time to turbocharge the MROSS procurement now.

The National Flagship was due to be operational by 2025. Hopefully the MROSS will retain the same build schedule.

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑07 Nov 2022, 21:09 No surprise but time to turbocharge the MROSS procurement now.

The National Flagship was due to be operational by 2025. Hopefully the MROSS will retain the same build schedule.

Aren't we just buying an existing oil support ship to cover the immediate MROSS requirement?

Do the bidders get their bid costs reimbursed? Does one of the bidders get £250m to build something else? I know lets get one River B3.

tomuk wrote: ↑07 Nov 2022, 22:46

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑07 Nov 2022, 21:09 No surprise but time to turbocharge the MROSS procurement now.

The National Flagship was due to be operational by 2025. Hopefully the MROSS will retain the same build schedule.

Aren't we just buying an existing oil support ship to cover the immediate MROSS requirement?

Do the bidders get their bid costs reimbursed? Does one of the bidders get £250m to build something else? I know lets get one River B3.

To my understanding, one MROSS from COSTs, and second one to be built. This is the plan.

The point I'm trying to make is that it is a loss of £250m to the UK shipbuilding industry whether you liked the concept of a flagship/yacht in the first place. It would have been good experience for H&W or CL to keep their skills up pending later work.

tomuk wrote: ↑07 Nov 2022, 23:54 The point I'm trying to make is that it is a loss of £250m to the UK shipbuilding industry whether you liked the concept of a flagship/yacht in the first place. It would have been good experience for H&W or CL to keep their skills up pending later work.

It's really not a loss. Much better idea to build a MROSS for which there is a clear need.

And Harland and Wolff has neither the workforce, infrastructure nor capital to take on a £250 million project.

Their last annual report shows they had total revenue of only £18 million and made an overall loss. They're currently building unpowered barges to take garbage up and down the Thames.

RichardIC wrote: ↑08 Nov 2022, 09:16

tomuk wrote: ↑07 Nov 2022, 23:54 The point I'm trying to make is that it is a loss of £250m to the UK shipbuilding industry whether you liked the concept of a flagship/yacht in the first place. It would have been good experience for H&W or CL to keep their skills up pending later work.

It's really not a loss. Much better idea to build a MROSS for which there is a clear need.

But were not building MROSS we are going to or have just bought it off the shelf and will get a second new build one sometime in the future.

More images of Harland and Wolff's design....there was no way this was coming in at £250m...what on earth were Boris and Conservatives thinking....thank god it was cancelled. This was a poltical disaster in the making from day 1.

Timmymagic wrote: ↑24 May 2023, 14:09 More images of Harland and Wolff's design....there was no way this was coming in at £250m...what on earth were Boris and Conservatives thinking....thank god it was cancelled. This was a poltical disaster in the making from day 1.

According to some attendees, the H&W people were still under the belief that the National Flagship is an active part of the NSS.... Which I dearly hope is incorrect.

Jensy wrote: ↑24 May 2023, 15:53

Timmymagic wrote: ↑24 May 2023, 14:09 More images of Harland and Wolff's design....there was no way this was coming in at £250m...what on earth were Boris and Conservatives thinking....thank god it was cancelled. This was a poltical disaster in the making from day 1.

According to some attendees, the H&W people were still under the belief that the National Flagship is an active part of the NSS.... Which I dearly hope is incorrect.

I'm fine as long as MoD isn't paying for it.

new guy wrote: ↑24 May 2023, 16:53 I'm fine as long as MoD isn't paying for it.

I'm fine as long as no part of the Government isn't paying for it...

H & W need to put the crack pipe down though....no way the Government will fund this now, not with an election 2 years away and all the unfunded payrises they've been doing about to hit schools and the NHS.....mind you I wouldn't put it past them to utterly commit hari kari over it..