National Flagship for Britain

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
Scimitar54
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by Scimitar54 »

Bercow was also purported to be from “The Right” in his early days, but just look where he is now! :mrgreen:
Sorry, but bringing one’s personal politics into this forum is “Passé”.

dmereifield
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by dmereifield »

No real surprise here that HMG has categorised the flagship as being security/defence

https://www.ft.com/content/c1297c53-15b ... 92ddcd67bb

I can't see behind the payroll so don't know if there is any other interesting info int he article. It states cast of £250 million now, which seems to have increased from the earlier value banded around (£200 million)

Ron5
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by Ron5 »

dmereifield wrote:No real surprise here that HMG has categorised the flagship as being security/defence

https://www.ft.com/content/c1297c53-15b ... 92ddcd67bb

I can't see behind the payroll so don't know if there is any other interesting info int he article. It states cast of £250 million now, which seems to have increased from the earlier value banded around (£200 million)
Sorry but I've tried to add the full text but keep getting 403 errors from the website

No interesting info. Just an idea to get around the WTO agreement, that the UK signed, that all UK ships would be open to worldwide bids. The exception would be for ships with national security/defense components. There's no intent to make this a spy ship.

dmereifield
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by dmereifield »

Ron5 wrote:
dmereifield wrote:No real surprise here that HMG has categorised the flagship as being security/defence

https://www.ft.com/content/c1297c53-15b ... 92ddcd67bb

I can't see behind the payroll so don't know if there is any other interesting info int he article. It states cast of £250 million now, which seems to have increased from the earlier value banded around (£200 million)
Sorry but I've tried to add the full text but keep getting 403 errors from the website

No interesting info. Just an idea to get around the WTO agreement, that the UK signed, that all UK ships would be open to worldwide bids. The exception would be for ships with national security/defense components. There's no intent to make this a spy ship.
Yes, that's what I had assumed. I recall some of the media getting hysterical about the "fact" that this would have to be tendered internationally...

bobp
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by bobp »

Still cannot see a need for this.

Defiance
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by Defiance »


UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s controversial £250m “trade yacht” is to be deemed to have a “national security” role, in a move that would allow it to be built in a British shipyard without going out to international tender.

Ministers have been looking at ways to get around a World Trade Organization agreement signed by the UK last year that commits to putting civilian shipbuilding contracts out to international competition.

The agreement exempts warships, but as an unarmed vessel the yacht does not qualify. Its principal purpose is to act as a floating venue for trade fairs and diplomatic receptions.

The Ministry of Defence said it had identified a carve out for the “national flagship” from the WTO rules on national security grounds and would fit the vessel with security and communications equipment.

One official briefed on the plans said the ship, which is expected to cost between £200m and £250m, could play an intelligence gathering role, but the MoD denied that was the intention or that it would carry surveillance equipment.

“There are no plans for the national flagship to have an intelligence gathering capability,” the MoD said. Any suggestion that the vessel was a spy ship could make it unwelcome in territorial waters.

The MoD said the ship would have standard security and communications features, given that it would host high-level delegates, but refused to say they were “for security reasons”.

An international design competition for the yacht has been launched, but ministers insist it must be built in Britain. They argue it will help to achieve foreign policy and security objectives by hosting diplomatic events.

The vessel, a successor to the Royal Yacht Britannia which was retired in 1997, is intended to come into service in 2025. It is a civilian vessel but will be crewed by the Royal Navy and funded out of the defence budget.

Johnson said in May: “This new national flagship will be the first vessel of its kind in the world, reflecting the UK’s burgeoning status as a great independent, maritime trading nation.”

The yacht’s geographical limitations — it would be unable to reach inland cities including Paris, Berlin, Rome, Madrid and Moscow — have already led some to question its diplomatic value.

Emily Thornberry, shadow trade secretary, said the government was scrabbling around to find a justification for exempting the construction of the civilian vessel from international competition.

“This is only necessary because they failed to include a blanket exemption for shipbuilding when they signed us up to the WTO’s government procurement agreement. It is waste and incompetence on a staggeringly epic scale,” she said.

Scimitar54
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by Scimitar54 »

Perhaps it will be fitted with 8 x 30mm guns? :mrgreen:

Lord Jim
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by Lord Jim »

I really do not like Emily Thornberry as a politician. At least Bris should get some good vibes from basically deciding to build this "Flagship" in the UK, even if it wasn't the original first choice method.

Scimitar54
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by Scimitar54 »

Fortunately there is nothing to like about her! If it is fitted with 30mm guns (and possibly phalanx) then it will deserve its status as a “Warship”. She will, due to both her role and those likely to be on board, after all, constitute a High Value Target. She may not be able to receive an escort, or indeed wish to have one. Classification as a “Warship” may, on this basis (if armed), be further justified. :mrgreen:

tomuk
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by tomuk »

Watch: 127m sailing yacht leaves shed at Oceanco
https://www.boatinternational.com/yacht ... ling-yacht

Ron5
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by Ron5 »

tomuk wrote:Watch: 127m sailing yacht leaves shed at Oceanco
https://www.boatinternational.com/yacht ... ling-yacht
Going to be absolutely gorgeous.

Scimitar54
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by Scimitar54 »

Taken aback momentarily, as I thought you had said 127mm ! A sailing yacht with a 5” Gun ? Then I re-read it and calmed down. :lol:

Ron5
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by Ron5 »

Scimitar54 wrote:Taken aback momentarily, as I thought you had said 127mm ! A sailing yacht with a 5” Gun ? Then I re-read it and calmed down. :lol:
You're right, a 57mm would make much more sense.

Scimitar54
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by Scimitar54 »

You have taken the wind out of my sails ! :lol:

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RichardIC
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by RichardIC »



A committee is to be appointed!

SD67
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by SD67 »

Well that's a relief. Design by committee, what could go wrong

I've changed my mind, this is ridiculous, especially coming out of the defence budget.

wargame_insomniac
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by wargame_insomniac »

SD67 wrote: 02 Jan 2022, 15:00 Well that's a relief. Design by committee, what could go wrong

I've changed my mind, this is ridiculous, especially coming out of the defence budget.
Agreed - surely should come out of the budgets of either Foriegn Office / Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy if it is going to be used to promote either international relations / trade.

serge750
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by serge750 »

Well if they are going to build one - can it be a " Q ship " :lolno:

Or how about large medical facility's to help with disaster relief ....it need a better reason for spending the money imo

SW1
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by SW1 »

Peak maritime jingoism useful for a oligarch only.

BB85
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by BB85 »

It's a terrible idea and will be quietly cancelled as soon as Boris gets the boot. I just hope we haven't wasted any tax payers money on consultations. The Royal family dont want to be seen anywhere near it, yachts scream privilege and needless excess, it certainly won't be used to sign global trade deals when the yacht strolls into port with Will and Kate on board.
It just makes it harder for the mod to justify getting extra cash when the government spends it on this nonsense.

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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by KiwiMuzz »

serge750 wrote: 02 Jan 2022, 15:33 Well if they are going to build one - can it be a " Q ship " :lolno:

Or how about large medical facility's to help with disaster relief ....it need a better reason for spending the money imo
One of the reasons for keeping HMY Britannia was that she could operate as a hospital ship in war. Then the Falklands War came around and it was "discovered" she used a different fuel to the rest of the fleet and could not go with the task force. :roll:

serge750
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by serge750 »

One of the reasons for keeping HMY Britannia was that she could operate as a hospital ship in war. Then the Falklands War came around and it was "discovered" she used a different fuel to the rest of the fleet and could not go with the task force. :roll:
[/quote]


That defo sounds like a Homer simpson D'OH ! moment :o

Lord Jim
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Re: National Flagship for Britain

Post by Lord Jim »

Imagine if it had gone though and been sunk! A replacement would certainly have been built as part of the Naval programme that was started after the Falklands to replace ships that were lost etc. I know Hospital Ships are supposed not supposed to be attacked but in the confines of the Sound she could have been accidentally hit?

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