UK Defence Forum

A thread to discuss NATO's second-largest military, the Turkish Armed Forces, which is currently undergoing a vast modernisation.

They have just signed a contract for the construction of a new LHD, which was recently shown off as having an airwing of F-35B's at IDEF-2015.

Not too long back the RAF was second to the USAF/USN in sorties/airstrikes over ISIS in Iraq, now the French have assumed that position.

What are the Turks up to? Considering they actually border Syria and Iraq... and could conceivably trump the US in airstrikes.

If they are unwilling to properly engage in a NATO campaign on their doorstep, whats the purpose of them getting a LHD?

An LHD like the Juan Carlos I, especially if it's really going to carry F-35Bs, is going to be a real game-changer for the balance of the Mediterranean. By about that time Italy will have a new LHD as well, it's going to be crowded.

WhitestElephant wrote:What are the Turks up to? Considering they actually border Syria and Iraq... and could conceivably trump the US in airstrikes.

If they are unwilling to properly engage in a NATO campaign on their doorstep, whats the purpose of them getting a LHD?

From what I understand:

Turkey allows foreign fighters and weapons to flood into the northern rebels, I heard they're buying oil from whichever factions control the production areas. They're probably where the US are arming the Kurds from, but I don't think they're sending weapons themselves. Turkey is allowing the war to continue in order to bleed Assad dry. If this war drags on for another five years and Assad barely wins, it's better for them strategically than if the war was to end tomorrow with either side having a clear advantage. There are some airstrikes from Turkey on ISIS convoys in retaliation for ISIS attacking their forces, but I think they're largely sitting this one out.

You can hardly blame them, considering they're set to take in nearly 2 million refugees in total, and with the groups operating right on their border (showing a willingness to use suicide bombing and more brutal methods of killing in order to achieve their goals).


The LHD, I'm not sure of. It could be used in the Mediterranean, to project their power in Libya (they're backing the separatist Government, I believe) and other countries when required, or they should use it in the Black Sea to counter Russia's navy. I'll leave it up to someone more familiar with their MO.

The country is a NATO member, but has also choosen to buy weapons from non-NATO countries:
http://rt.com/news/233803-turkey-china- ... e-defense/
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /23667183/
Just to mention a couple examples.

WhitestElephant wrote:Not too long back the RAF was second to the USAF/USN in sorties/airstrikes over ISIS in Iraq, now the French have assumed that position.?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gsw ... edit?pli=1

This fantastic document tracks basically everything going on.

CdG allowed the French to have a momentary surge in amount with 21 new jets being brought to bear, which is what the reports seem to be saying. However CdG has now left the area. They also fail to take into account the strikes from Reaper drones, for some reason. The UK is still the country who has commited the most strikes overall below the US, although as anyone who isn't treating this like some sort of competition (like all countries did in Libya, frankly) will attest to, they are all doing excellent work.

http://news.usni.org/2015/04/20/french- ... ainst-isis

Basically carried out the aircraft carrier version of a driveby shooting. Excellent work to everyone on that ship.

Honestly, I'd like to see Turkey pull more weight in it for their proximity, but politics be politics.

RetroSicotte wrote:

WhitestElephant wrote:Not too long back the RAF was second to the USAF/USN in sorties/airstrikes over ISIS in Iraq, now the French have assumed that position.?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gsw ... edit?pli=1

This fantastic document tracks basically everything going on.

CdG allowed the French to have a momentary surge in amount with 21 new jets being brought to bear, which is what the reports seem to be saying. However CdG has now left the area. They also fail to take into account the strikes from Reaper drones, for some reason. The UK is still the country who has commited the most strikes overall below the US, although as anyone who isn't treating this like some sort of competition (like all countries did in Libya, frankly) will attest to, they are all doing excellent work.

http://news.usni.org/2015/04/20/french- ... ainst-isis

Basically carried out the aircraft carrier version of a driveby shooting. Excellent work to everyone on that ship.

Honestly, I'd like to see Turkey pull more weight in it for their proximity, but politics be politics.

Thank you very much for that document. Strange Reaper strikes aren't counted... in many ways they are more effective, by virtue of their persistent ISTAR and endurance making them able to strike at a target there and then.

Some detailed specs for the Turkish LHD/Aircraft Carrier

Turkish Navy Future LHD Model Showcased with F-35B STOVL Aircraft at IDEF 2015

At IDEF, Sedef shipyard gave the latest LHD specifications to Navy Recognition:
Length overall: 231 meters
Maximum beam: 32 meters
Draught: 6.8 meters
Height: 58 meters
Maximum speed: 21 knots
Range: 9,000 miles @ economical speed
Electric propulsion with 2x 11 MW Siemens eSIPOD; 5x MAN 16V32/40 Diesel GenSets and 2x bow thrusters
Complete hospital and sick bay

More at http://navyrecognition.com/index.php?op ... ew&id=2692

Turkish Shipyard Dearsan Will Deliver Six 33 meters Fast Attack Craft to Turkmenistan
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... -news.html

IDEF 2015: RMK Marine Unveiled Some New Fast Attack Craft and Corvette Designs

RMK Marine's designation for this vessel is Fast Missile Craft TTHB-1 / FMC 69. An RMK Marine representative explained to Navy Recognition that this vessel was entirely designed and developped to answer a future tender of the Turkish Navy.

According to RMK Marine, the Fast Missile Craft was developed to have high sprint capability (in can reach speeds over 50 knots which is impressive for a vessel of this size) in order to carry out tasks of Anti-Surface Warfare, Anti-Piracy, Search and Rescue and Sea Lines of Communication Defence & Sea control missions in territorial waters and EEZ.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=2718
I really like this design, so much punch in such a small package. 50+ Knots however... I am not sure how they can reach that speed.

tit for tat... remember that Turkish Phantom that was shot down a couple of years ago... very similar circumstances

Apparently it was a UAV that was shot down according to Syrian media.

ArmChairCivvy wrote:tit for tat... remember that Turkish Phantom that was shot down a couple of years ago... very similar circumstances

During March last year a Turkish F-16 shot down a Syrian Mig-23. This time however, it was reportedly a UAV that was shot down, not a fighter.

I thought the Turkish Phantom was taken out by anti-aircraft fire?

IDEF 2015: ASELSAN ÇAFRAD, Multifunction, Phased Array Radar System Nearly Completed

On the occasion of IDEF 2015 (the International Defence Industry Fair which was held last week in Istanbul, Turkey), Navy Recognition contacted leading Turkish defense company ASELSAN to learn about the ÇAFRAD radar system, the radar that will be fitted on the future Turkish Navy Frigate TF2000 class. ASELSAN got back to us with the latest development in this major program:

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=2728

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan dreams that Turkey will make all its own military equipment within a few years reflects his ambition to play a greater role in a turbulent region and achieve independence from long-time allies in the West.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/05/2 ... ET20150527

WhitestElephant wrote:

ArmChairCivvy wrote:tit for tat... remember that Turkish Phantom that was shot down a couple of years ago... very similar circumstances

During March last year a Turkish F-16 shot down a Syrian Mig-23. This time however, it was reportedly a UAV that was shot down, not a fighter.

I thought the Turkish Phantom was taken out by anti-aircraft fire?

A SAM, I think.

Matter of time...Turkey downs an Ivan: http://www.oafnation.com/news-1/2015/10 ... ish-forces

GastonGlocker wrote:Matter of time...Turkey downs an Ivan: http://www.oafnation.com/news-1/2015/10 ... ish-forces

I can't find any confirmation of this on more traditional news outlets, but if a MiG-29 has been shot down it's a Syrian one. I'm pretty sure that the only Russian air superiority fighters in Syria are Su-30SM's.

Ah the wonders of media headlines.

"Russian jet shot down"

Even if it's a Syrian jet, the headline isn't wrong.

Always a reminder to be wary with headlines.

You're probably right. I'm seeing it picked up by other sources but content is the same...someone saw/heard something via social media...no confirmation. Damn Infotainment era!

But that could also have been said for 9/11 - "American plane deliberately crashes into WTC". True from the perspective of the planes were US owned and manufactured.

Point is, drawing people in with a headline saying Turkey shot down a Russian Air Force jet brings in more clicks because anyone "vs Russia" is a massive moneyspinner of a perception.

The headline is edited to say that without saying it, is what I'm saying.

Turkey has shot down an "unidentified drone" near the Syrian border.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34551155

..................

Twitter tells me the 2 pilots that ejected are with kurdish forces freindly to the turks.

Clearly a mojor development!
Turkish air force clearly have some nuts! If the russians did cross over I would say they are well within their right to defend againt a war loaded aircraft.

arfah wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34907983

Turkey shoots down Russian Jet near Latakia, Syria.

Edit: RT footage

https://www.rt.com/news/323215-warplane ... ia-turkey/

Good job Turkey!

EDIT: Scratch that, it now appears Turkey was completely in the wrong. Unfortunately, the pilot lost his life.