Turkish Armed Forces

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Let's see if the armaments prgrm will start to run out of steam. Just as Turkey recovered from the previous crisis, their leader manufactured a new one:
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/m ... serves.png
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

Well their glorious leader will blame everyone but himself to gain the nationalist vote as usual.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote:blame everyone but himself
It is easy to blame others when the situation is, as The Times of Israel quoted from their own campaign trail:
"Benny Gantz to ToI: Future of Israel as a democracy at stake in these elections
If Netanyahu wins, warns Blue and White leader, ‘you are going to get the Israeli version of the Turkish system,’ where the PM makes sure he cannot be investigated"
though I must say that one or two other countries have started leaning that same way
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

Well Turkey seems set on the purchase of the S-400 from Russia, announcing that they will be delivered early in June rather then July. They appear to be calling the bluff of the USA regarding the purchase and seem to be keen in concentrating their efforts in deepening their ties with Russia. How this is going to end up and affect their relationship with NATO is anyone's guess?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

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Lord Jim wrote:How this is going to end up and affect their relationship with NATO is anyone's guess?
Turkey is 'energy hostage' to Russia anyway... and not the only NATO country in that position (though perhaps more so than any other).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

Careful you do not want to upset the Germans. :lol:

Jake1992
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by Jake1992 »

I see turkeys been kicked out the F35 program, so what does this mean for its F35 plant who will get the work ?

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xav
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

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Atmaca Anti-Ship Missile Fitted Aboard Turkish Navy’s 4th Ada-class Corvette
Image
Pictures posted on social media show the quad launcher(s) have been fitted aboard Kinaliada ( F-514), the fourth and final Ada-class corvette (MILGEM Project) of the Turkish Navy. The vessel was launched in July 2017 at Istanbul naval shipyard and is set to be commissioned later this year. It is the first vessel ever seen with the brand new missile system.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -corvette/

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xav
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

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Turkish Navy commissions 4th and last Ada-class corvette
Image
The Turkish Navy yesterday commissioned its 4th and last Ada-class corvette (MILGEM Project), TCG Kinaliada (F-514), at the Istanbul Shipyard facilities in Tuzla.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -corvette/

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

One would not think that the vessel here http://www.ekathimerini.com/resources/2 ... -large.jpg being escorted into the Cyprus EEZ is from... Barbados :)
- Brexit will not be the oly topic for the coming wk end summit, but Turkey's actions on two accounts (northern Syria included) will be in the spot light and, as the source for the linked image puts it "what is most pressing now for Athens and Nicosia is what stance the European Union will take at its upcoming Foreign Affairs Council and its Council Summit on October 17"
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

sea_eagle
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by sea_eagle »

Some excellent comments from senior members on the board. What options are there regarding Turkey in NATO?

The Russians trust Turkey enough to provide their latest S400 SAM system, will Turkey share details with NATO?
The USA does not trust Turkey enough to continue with the sale of F35 or production of any parts (for fear of passing intel to Russia).

Russia gains a lot if they have access via a land border through Turkey to Syria and does not mind what happens to the Kurds.
Most of the senior (professional) generals were purged following the failed coup so no chance of another attempt.

Should Turkey be allowed to have full/any access to NATO doctrine, intelligence and operational procedures or should membership be suspended/revoked until such time as a new (democratic, western oriented) government is in place - probably a decade or more away.

There is no clear direction from the USA government although the airbase is important. So where does NATO stand and what action can the EU countries (including the UK) take?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

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sea_eagle wrote:There is no clear direction from the USA government although the airbase is important
At the time of the coup the AB was "under siege" by Turkish army. Allegedly the nukes in there were moved elsewhere in Europe (though the base is not in Europe, strictly speaking), but there was never any official confirmation of this.
- however, more important than the AB is the early warning radar (a different location). It was already important in the Soviet days, but now (with Iran tinkering with both missiles and nukes) even more so
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

sea_eagle
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by sea_eagle »

Well there is a UK response..
UK government halts arms export licences to Turkey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50056358
pretty feeble it allows existing export licenses worth £1bn since 2013 to continue and only halts future new arms sales.
The US announced some sanctions as well and mixed it up with some trade tariffs on steel, again confused messages.

So Turkey stays in NATO, and US keeps the airbase and radar station operational - for now.
Turkey clears the Kurds from part of their historical land and it is repopulated with the displaced Syrians in Turkey.
The tens of thousands of ISIS prisoners held by the Kurds get to go free since the Kurds can no longer continue to guard them....
Assad gets to reclaim the northern part of Syria which the Kurds had fought and liberated.

What happens when Russia offers aircraft to substitute for the loss of F35 in exchange for Turkey shutting down the radar station and airbase? Do we then throw Turkey out of NATO?

Lord Jim
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

We might as well. Their relations with Russia are far better than with Europe or NATO. They have basically torn up their secular constitution, and are looking to becoming a major power broker in the middle east. They have massively expanded their industrial base with the help of other countries from both Europe and farther afield, and do not really need the F-35. They have 100s of F-16s built locally, with very few parts having to be imported. If they work with Russia they will have at least a home grown 5th generation fighter available by the 2030s and possibly more. Yes NATO will lose access to airfield and some important radar installation but these can be replaced eventually.

Turkey's current leaders are looking south and east for their future. They know Europe will not do anything meaningful against them whilst they have 100,000s for refugees they can send westward, and the USA or more accurately Trump want to "Bring the troops home"! It seems the US will only fight when they have a vested interest in the situation in the near future at least, and so other nations may have a free hand to act. At a bear minimum all non Turkish NATO personnel should be withdrawn from Turkey, and maybe the US should offer members of NATO who are its immediate neighbours very favourable FMS terms on new kit.

Lord Jim
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

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https://www.janes.com/article/92307/tur ... ce-of-f-35
Well it seems Turkey has taken yet another step toward the exit door of NATO if this report is to be believed. I is a little worrying that Europe, the USA and the ROK have through technology transfers allowed Turkey to build up a substantial state of the art Defence Industry, which will now be available to Russia as part of future exchanges. A SU-57 with Western avionics complimenting Russian supplied systems would be a fearsome platform for Turkey and Russia if the door swings both ways. Will the USA stand for such an arrangement, considering the level of technological transfer they allowed when the Turks set up an F-1 production line in their country?

seaspear
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by seaspear »

So what would happen if Turkey expressed interest in acquiring the Eurofighter instead

Lord Jim
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

With the current atmosphere they should probably be told to stick their request where the sun doesn't shine. Germany for starter wouldn't go there due to the behaviour of the Turkish Government regarding human rights, press freedom and so on. The current invasion of northern Syria and their treatment of the Kurds also makes even the thought of such a deal politically highly toxic.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

seaspear wrote: interest in acquiring the Eurofighter instead
The interest in having EF's engines for their own design was stopped in its (early) tracks.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

Turkey is threatening to hold up any resolutions being signed at the forthcoming NATO summit unless it get far greater political support for its operations in Northern Syria against the Kurdish Forces it classifies as terrorists. Yet these same forces fought along side NATO against ISIS not long ago. If Turkey keep going along this path, it actions could become incompatible with NATO membership, but that is someway off. Maybe NATO should draw down the number of personnel at the designated "NATO " bases in Turkey, and reduce its reliance on them by moving operations elsewhere. Not a simple task but some could be moved to Cyprus for example, possible expanding the UK bases. The increased number of jobs for locals could help to sell the idea to the locals and a section of the enlarged base could still be British Sovereign Territory if needed, whilst NATO pays for the majority of the running and infrastructure update costs.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote:Turkey is threatening to hold up any resolutions being signed at the forthcoming NATO summit unless it get far greater political support for its operations in Northern Syria against the Kurdish Forces
- what's the source for this?
- sounds like an interesting meeting in the making
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

abc123
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by abc123 »

Turkey openly supports head-cutters in Syria- TuAF F-16C used AIM-120 to destroy Syrian Mi-17 near Idlib. Interesting "sounds" during the video. :thumbdown: :think:

https://defence-blog.com/news/turkey-sa ... opter.html

https://defence-blog.com/news/shocking- ... syria.html
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Well, yes, difficult to say who is on whose side.

Assad's helicopters have been barrel bombing civilians/ hospitals with impunity, this might put a stop to it:
"the Turkish Air Force will shoot down more Syria Arab Air Force aircraft over Idlib if required."
- will they try the same with Russian AF? And what are the Russians doing there, anyway?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

MammaLiTurchi
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by MammaLiTurchi »



Firing test of Turkish AD system Hisar-A

Hisar-A is an autonomous system using ACV-15 chassis (originally an IFV) carrying 3D search radar MAR (Mobil Arama Radarı, Mobile Search Radar) Electro-Optics and 4 Hisar-A missiles. System can be operated totally on its own (standalone) with 3+1 personnel (2 operators +1 mechanic +1 driver). It also incorporates IFF system and can be linked up to other Air Defenses to form an IADS system. Hisar-A can lock and engage targets with full IIR track and guidance without opening its radar.

Vehicle can travel at 65 km/h with fully loaded configuration. It can travel across shallow riverbeds, bumpy surfaces and patchy roads with no troubles.

Hisar-A missile can hit targets up to 5 kms high (at around 15.000 feet) and 15 kms away. These specs may further be developed as Turkey learns more about missile dynamics each passing day.

Image

This transformer looking design is its unique appearence. Although it causes platform type dependence, packing radar, E/O sensors, 4 missiles and C3 interface requires something like this.

Soon, Hisar-O ,an enhanced missile, will be tested with 25 kilometers range and 15 kilometers altitude. Hisar-O missile will be carried by Mercedes Zatros chassis with 6 missiles.

MammaLiTurchi
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by MammaLiTurchi »



A showcase of Turkish Naval Products at IDEF 19 Defence Fair.

I was there also. It was the first time I attended a defence fair. The weirdest part was cold faces of Russian representatives.

One of the most important features was I class frigate, which was in the beginning. It is under construction and planned to be launched in 2021 and commissioned in 2023.

It will employ;

-Smart-S Mk.2 as main search radar (250 km range)
-16 cell Mk.41 VLS (64 ESSM capability theoretically)
-16x SSM launch tubes
-S70 sized helicopter operating capability with hangar
-Phalanx CIWS
-RAM Air Defence System
-STOP 25mm guns
-76mm Oto Melara main gun
-2x2 torpedo tubes (2 in each side)
-ASuW rocket launchers
-Link 11,16 and other types of network capable
-National SONAR system
-Integrated EW suite


In total, 4 ships will be built and commissioned.

-TCG İstanbul in 2023 (under construction)
-TCG İzmir in 2025 (in pre manufacturing preparations)
-TCG İçel in 2026 (planning)
-TCG İzmit in 2027 (planning)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Turkish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Intervening here, there and every where
... a costly business; takes some foreign currency.

Now that "The Turkish lira has hit a record low of 8.15 against the dollar amid investor anxiety about the Turkish economy, hit by coronavirus and friction with Nato allies.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has riled France and the US among others.

Analysts attribute the weakening to concern about Turkish inflation - 11.7% last month - and the central bank's refusal to raise its key interest rate.

A rate rise could dampen inflation and encourage investors to buy lira." Not so sure that is the case who would be upbeat?

Erdogan does not want to raise interest rates, there WOULD BE inflation.
Erdogan sees the FX slump; there WILL be inflation (+ and his foreign forays will also then cost extra)

I would not be too surprised if the UAE and the Saudis have lent a few bn to 'friends' so that they can sell the Turkish lira all the way ... down to the ditch.

A bucket of ice water, to cool the not-so-cool heads?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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