UK Defence Forum

whitelancer wrote:Or the argument could be why have two very similar weapon's, why not replace Brimstone and save money!

This is the crux of the matter. The two missiles are only similar if you totally ignore the fact that one is British and largely made in the UK and the other one is not. When you factor that in, the two missiles are not similar at all. In fact they are totally different.

Back on topic before I get told off (again)

CR3 prototype recently at Bovington courtesy of Richard James.

If we did adopt that Digital Camo shown earlier I wonder how long it would take to get all out AFV painted. Challenger 3 would be one of the first I think as each vehicles would be repainted as it goes through the rebuild process, with Boxer second. I do like how it looks and somehow makes the Challenger 3 look even more modern.

Challenger 3 with Trophy MV will be presented on DSEI. Also seems like it has some additional armour attached on the upper front plate

https://twitter.com/Zbiesu/status/1436802533444440069

From the link above ^


(Piotr Zbies / @Zbiesu)

Looks weird like a passing tree would knock it off. Not impressed. They can do better.

Considering its a brand new turret I would have thought Reinmettal would have had something more integrated in mind like on the Lynx. Having said that this looks like it could easily be replaced and swapped onto and Ajax or Warrior turret, not that we will need that feature in the future

Ron5 wrote:Looks weird like a passing tree would knock it off. Not impressed. They can do better.

I'm with you on that. Its much bulkier than I thought it was. With the turret forward or over the back decks it looks as though it will overhang the hull, (difficult to tell from the photos above) this could prove problematic for transport by road or rail, (possibly requiring its removal), as well as being vulnerable to damage in wooded areas, not good.

BB85 wrote:Considering its a brand new turret I would have thought Reinmettal would have had something more integrated in mind ...

I wonder if the decision to fit Trophy was made too late to do a better job. Fitting the sensors on the front and rear of the turret at an angle and below the turret roof height looks as though it could have been a realistic option, though more difficult to implement. As it is it doesn't do much for the Commanders all round visibility.
Anyone know if they are fitting all round cameras, doesn't seem to be any sign of any.

BB85 wrote:Considering its a brand new turret I would have thought Reinmettal would have had something more integrated in mind like on the Lynx. Having said that this looks like it could easily be replaced and swapped onto and Ajax or Warrior turret, not that we will need that feature in the future

Trophy system should be (relatively) easily installed/removed as, while all 148 CH3 would be able to mount it, there will be only enough systems to equip half of the tanks. So system should be switchable between tanks of the two heavy brigades depending on which one of them is deployed.

Also this is maybe done just for a showcase for DSEI and final implementation could look somewhat different. Or not. It is still long way before actual production starts in 2025 and lot of things could change.

This is the prototype mind you. The large overhang on the rear of the turret if greater than before but then it is now storing ammunition like the M1, which also has quite a substantial overhang. We will have to wait to see more mature development platforms to see how things evolve, but I am pretty sure the Army won't accept a tank where the driver cannot get in or out relatively easily when the turret is reversed.

Some additional photos of Trophy system on CH3. This looks very much like added just for presentation on DSEI as those rear radar panels implementation looks quite weird.









https://twitter.com/JonHawkes275/status ... 1547759617

It does look a bit bolted on last minute for the exhibition. From the post yesterday I thought the forward and rear facing panels where all mounted on the large ear pod things on the turret. I'm sure the final design will he more refined. Thanks for the photos though.

Jon Hawkes of Jane's, says its just a rough representation and that once Raphael get more involved we'll see a much different final install.

Cr3 guns ..

https://rbsl.com/news-and-events/news/f ... re-weapons

Ron5 wrote:Jon Hawkes of Jane's, says its just a rough representation and that once Raphael get more involved we'll see a much different final install.

Most definitely. The radars, especially the aft two are simply bolt on in the rough area they would be in the final model. I think looking at the installation on the M1A2C gives a better impression if memory serves me correct.

As for the guns, a good bit of PR for Rheinmetall, but they are just a batch from the ongoing production of L55 weapons for new and upgraded Leopard 2s, so nothing major, but does show that progress is starting to be made at least.

Nice video (with drone?) over CR3. Just a warning that sound of the video is not very pleasant to the ears.

https://twitter.com/DefencePhoto/status ... 6359852043

sol wrote:Nice video (with drone?) over CR3. Just a warning that sound of the video is not very pleasant to the ears.

https://twitter.com/DefencePhoto/status ... 6359852043

A phone on a stick? and a passing Ajax?

Ron5 wrote:

sol wrote:Nice video (with drone?) over CR3. Just a warning that sound of the video is not very pleasant to the ears.

https://twitter.com/DefencePhoto/status ... 6359852043

A phone on a stick? and a passing Ajax?

Presumably the recording cut short when the phone shook to pieces (didn't watch the video)?

They should have pointed it and the other British Army platforms in the awesome digital scheme we saw a Challenger 2 painted in a while back.

Has anything be released about the total timescale for the Challenger 3 programme and what delivery rate the Army can expect?

Lord Jim wrote: ↑30 Nov 2021, 18:50 Has anything be released about the total timescale for the Challenger 3 programme and what delivery rate the Army can expect?

Greased lightning and cheap as chips ..

... compared to Ajax

Lord Jim wrote: ↑30 Nov 2021, 18:50 Has anything be released about the total timescale for the Challenger 3 programme and what delivery rate the Army can expect?

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... /22102.htm

Jon Hawkes posted on his twitter account that, apparently, Ben Wallace in his speech to Commons on 25th said that there might be acceleration of the program to deliver first CR3 by 2025, but I couldn't find any confirmation of this

It shouldn't take 9 years to get an upgrade tank into service

Everything is still about in year spending, so timescales and total cost seem to be secondary priorities. In the same timescales you could expect to develop a whole new design. Would it be cheaper to just install teh turret form the latest Leopard 2 A7V. May not have the same protection levels but they should be enough to do the job.