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Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 03 Dec 2022, 11:52
by NickC
"Germany has promised Kyiv seven more of its Gepard (German for cheetah) 1A2 self-propelled anti-aircraft gun systems, or SPAAGs. Berlin has now delivered 30 of the tracked Gepard vehicles, which sport a pair of 35mm automatic cannons mounted on a rotating turret that also features an integrated radar, according to the German government’s ongoing tally of military and humanitarian aid it has sent to Ukraine."
"Following a recent visit to Kyiv, Gustav Cressel, a senior policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations, said the top item on Ukrainian soldiers’ weapons wish lists was more Gepards."
Interesting comment on how popular and assuming finding very effective the twin 35mm powerful canons on the tracked ~50t Gepard is with the troops.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u ... on-the-way
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 03 Dec 2022, 16:22
by wargame_insomniac
NickC wrote: ↑03 Dec 2022, 11:52
"Germany has promised Kyiv seven more of its Gepard (German for cheetah) 1A2 self-propelled anti-aircraft gun systems, or SPAAGs. Berlin has now delivered 30 of the tracked Gepard vehicles, which sport a pair of 35mm automatic cannons mounted on a rotating turret that also features an integrated radar, according to the German government’s ongoing tally of military and humanitarian aid it has sent to Ukraine."
"Following a recent visit to Kyiv, Gustav Cressel, a senior policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations, said the top item on Ukrainian soldiers’ weapons wish lists was more Gepards."
Interesting comment on how popular and assuming finding very effective the twin 35mm powerful canons on the tracked ~50t Gepard is with the troops.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u ... on-the-way
If Russia is running out of their missiles and other munitions, it does seem that theu are increasingly turningg to cheap drones, Iranian drones IIRC. In which case something like the Gepard with two 35mm cannons seems an ideal response. Something that countries like Poland seem to be learning from (but UK has not as of yet).
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 04 Dec 2022, 10:50
by SW1
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 04 Dec 2022, 10:57
by TheLoneRanger
SW1 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2022, 10:50
This just highlights how little prepared the west/NATO is for war when ammunition supplies are so low. I guess, there will be the need for a rethink on procurement capabilities, procurement pipelines and supply levels.
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 04 Dec 2022, 11:04
by SW1
TheLoneRanger wrote: ↑04 Dec 2022, 10:57
SW1 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2022, 10:50
This just highlights how little prepared the west/NATO is for war when ammunition supplies are so low. I guess, there will be the need for a rethink on procurement capabilities, procurement pipelines and supply levels.
A realisation that domestic production of “expendables” is not a nice to have it is essential. Relying on others no matter who they are will not work when everyone needs them at the same time.
If that means more stocks more spent on spares and less new vehicles, ships and planes then so be it.
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 05 Dec 2022, 14:08
by Jdam
Was this really an unknown? I feel with the sophistication of modern weapons the expendables were always going to run out fast. We didn't produce a small number of NLAW's but look at how fast Ukraine went through them.
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 05 Dec 2022, 15:44
by Tempest414
Problem is we need Vehicles , Planes and ships to get weapons to the battle space
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 05 Dec 2022, 17:21
by Phil Sayers
Can't help wondering whether Ukraine has decided that 'the final stage of tests' should be a couple of combat demonstrations:
Attacking the home bases of Russia's strategic bomber fleet is a seriously gutsy move. Hard to think of a more sensitive target they could have gone for than Engels airbase where reportedly two TU-95 Bears are now out of action. To be able to accurately attack not one but two airbases at circa 500 Km range from Ukraine must be causing serious panic in the upper echelons of the Russian government and military; if Ukraine is both able and willing to successfully strike Engels is there any target they won't be able and willing to attack? If the 1000 Km range claimed above is achievable the Kremlin itself is within range.
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 05 Dec 2022, 18:57
by Jdam
For us with recent wars in Afghanistan and Iran we got used to the idea of people not being able to hit back at our infrastructure I wonder if a bit of this has bleed over into the Russian thinking.
I am not sure if this attack drone is what caused the strike at the airbase, saving them up for a mass attached would have achieved more, image if it was and they had used a dozen on the base, it would have been more than 2 aircraft damaged that is for sure.
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 05 Dec 2022, 18:58
by Jdam
For what its worth
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 05 Dec 2022, 20:09
by Phil Sayers
Whatever was used against that airbase it claimed at least one TU-22 Backfire to go with the Bears at Engel. Damaging or destroying a minimum of three strategic bombers (it may well be more; the Russians haven't admitted to the TU-22 in the photo) in one night will have Putin very seriously angry / apprehensive:
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 05 Dec 2022, 20:33
by Phil Sayers
Commercial satellite imagery of the above is already available - seems the Backfire in the above image has also sustained serious damage to its wing which cannot be seen in the photo. IMO the odds are it will never fly again and will instead be cannibalised for spare parts:
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 06 Dec 2022, 20:03
by Zeno
Other pictures have shown stock piles of missiles on the ground near these bombers ,these would of been a better target if the reports of missile shortages are correct as there are no shortages of these old bombers
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 09 Dec 2022, 14:08
by Zeno
There are reports indicating that the U.S administration is encouraging Germany to provide Leopard 2 tanks to the Ukraine
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/le ... r-AA154gi8
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/10/cou ... ht-russia/
It will be interesting to see if Germany will supply these tanks
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 09 Dec 2022, 17:52
by dmereifield
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 10 Dec 2022, 10:34
by TheLoneRanger
Think that is the Americans way of telling Germany to step up and supply more systems to Ukraine - rather than sitting on the sidelines and sprinkling in the odd old system from time to time..
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 10 Dec 2022, 10:38
by TheLoneRanger
Another thing that comes to mind is that the Americans tend to store their decommisioned systems such that if required - as is now for Ukraine - they can be supplied.
The UK tends to not do this and as such there were a number of systems eg Rapier(!!!) that we could have sent to Ukraine which would have earnt their keep but we could not - but somehow the Americans can supply legacy hawk systems which are good enough to shoot down drones.
Once again - an example of the short sighted nature of the lack of thinking in our UK MOD ....
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 10 Dec 2022, 11:12
by Phil Sayers
TheLoneRanger wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 10:34
Think that is the Americans way of telling Germany to step up and supply more systems to Ukraine - rather than sitting on the sidelines and sprinkling in the odd old system from time to time..
I think this is more about Germany's terrible PR game and their early reluctance. Germany has significantly stepped up since and provided Ukraine with large quantities of equipment, ammunition and supplies but they cannot shake the initial impression:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/09/f ... id-to.html
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 10 Dec 2022, 17:03
by dmereifield
Phil Sayers wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 11:12
TheLoneRanger wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 10:34
Think that is the Americans way of telling Germany to step up and supply more systems to Ukraine - rather than sitting on the sidelines and sprinkling in the odd old system from time to time..
I think this is more about Germany's terrible PR game and their early reluctance. Germany has significantly stepped up since and provided Ukraine with large quantities of equipment, ammunition and supplies but they cannot shake the initial impression:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/09/f ... id-to.html
No, they're still dragging their feet
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 13 Dec 2022, 18:45
by Phil Sayers
US apparently poised to send Patriot batteries:
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 13 Dec 2022, 22:11
by Jdam
Must be confident to send that sort of weaponry. I assume this is missile defence for Kyiv?
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 14 Dec 2022, 13:52
by Jdam
Now they are getting SAMP/T as well
https://www.challenges.fr/entreprise/de ... ine_838803
Paris and Rome accepted kyiv's request for these air defense systems designed by MBDA and Thales. It is Italy that should deliver one of its systems, according to the French ambassador to Ukraine Etienne de Poncins.
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 16 Dec 2022, 09:32
by SW1
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 17 Dec 2022, 00:15
by Zeno
An interesting article from Bellingcat providing evidence that an early separatist leader was in fact an F.S.B agent under a different name and early communications with Wagner
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/07 ... dentities/
Re: The war in Ukraine
Posted: 21 Dec 2022, 07:36
by mrclark303
TheLoneRanger wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 10:38
Another thing that comes to mind is that the Americans tend to store their decommisioned systems such that if required - as is now for Ukraine - they can be supplied.
The UK tends to not do this and as such there were a number of systems eg Rapier(!!!) that we could have sent to Ukraine which would have earnt their keep but we could not - but somehow the Americans can supply legacy hawk systems which are good enough to shoot down drones.
Once again - an example of the short sighted nature of the lack of thinking in our UK MOD ....
Unfortunately that's probably got more to do with a 30 year push within the Mod to sell off or privatise Mod estates.
It's left us in a rather perilous position of being unable to store equipment that might be used for wartime emergency use, or indeed donate to Ukraine.
Tactical close range and mobile systems like rapier would have been tremendously useful to the Ukrainians with their hit and run tactics. More reach than a shoulder launched system and particularly effective against low level jets and helicopters and drones.