The war in Ukraine

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mr.fred
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by mr.fred »

mrclark303 wrote: 21 Dec 2022, 07:36 Tactical close range and mobile systems like rapier would have been tremendously useful to the Ukrainians with their hit and run tactics. More reach than a shoulder launched system and particularly effective against low level jets and helicopters and drones.
Would you also store the energetic material of the rockets and warheads, and how well do they hold up in storage? Likewise perishable materials and electronics.

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Tempest414
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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What would be a better option now would 40 or so Rapid Ranger systems linked in to a network

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mrclark303
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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mr.fred wrote: 21 Dec 2022, 09:44
mrclark303 wrote: 21 Dec 2022, 07:36 Tactical close range and mobile systems like rapier would have been tremendously useful to the Ukrainians with their hit and run tactics. More reach than a shoulder launched system and particularly effective against low level jets and helicopters and drones.
Would you also store the energetic material of the rockets and warheads, and how well do they hold up in storage? Likewise perishable materials and electronics.
That I simply don't know, but the Americans seem to manage it, with systems like Hawk they have donated to Ukraine.

Can you imagine how capable forward deployed blindfire rapier would be in Ukraine, it would take one hell of a toll on Russian Helicopters, that's for sure...

Phil Sayers
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Well done to Santa for taking some time out of his busy schedule to visit Engels airbase (again)...
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inch
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by inch »

Just had a thought about tanks now Ukraine,you know how Russia managed to get 1000s of troops out of Kherson dressed as civilians and suprised the west ,how do we not know they are doing same in Belarus but in reverse , supplying tanks equipment as we know and people saying they not ready to attack ,but they are sending thousands of troops as civilians ready to suprise Ukraine in attack , wouldn't put it past Russia to wrong foot Ukraine

Phil Sayers
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Almost a year into their three day cakewalk and the Russians are busy installing air defence on top of their MoD's Moscow HQ:





I'm guessing they didn't want to be caught with their Pantsir down.....(sorry, I'll get my coat :oops: ).
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Be fair, they couldn't install at ground levels. Too much risk of it engaging defenestrated generals, politicians and advisers

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Phil Sayers wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 19:12 Almost a year into their three day cakewalk and the Russians are busy installing air defence on top of their MoD's Moscow HQ:





I'm guessing they didn't want to be caught with their Pantsir down.....(sorry, I'll get my coat :oops: ).
Russia's "special operation" is going very well for them it seems.

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Installing something like a twenty ton plus vehicle with its own power supplies on the roofs of buildings would require a lot of work stabilising such roof, certainly you would need to co-ordinate with local air traffic authorities to avoid any embarrassments , civilian planes etc. what happened to the s-500 system which was supposedly outside Moscow to protect against strategic missiles

TheLoneRanger
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Looks like Abrahams could be heading to Ukraine - most likely a "fig leaf" for German weakness ...

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mrclark303
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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TheLoneRanger wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 17:23

Looks like Abrahams could be heading to Ukraine - most likely a "fig leaf" for German weakness ...
With a few hundred Leopard and Abrams the Russians will literally be rolled up and swept back over the boarder, there's little Putin could do about it, they would be utterly outclassed and outmanoeuvred....

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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mrclark303 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 21:32
TheLoneRanger wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 17:23

Looks like Abrahams could be heading to Ukraine - most likely a "fig leaf" for German weakness ...
With a few hundred Leopard and Abrams the Russians will literally be rolled up and swept back over the boarder, there's little Putin could do about it, they would be utterly outclassed and outmanoeuvred....
Sounds overly optimistic. They'll come in drips and drabs over a period of 6 months or so...can't see it being a cumulative total of hundreds in that time frame. And, with a mixture of 3-4 new tank types the logistics will be a pain in the backside.

Don't get me wrong, it's great news, and good that Germany finally managed to make the right call. One blessing from Sholtz' hesirancynis that it seems to have leveraged Biden into donating Abrams somewhat sooner than he likely otherwise would have

Jdam
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Maybe not, I suspect Ukraine would get the recently removed (or in the process) Abrams from the US Marines as I believe they were a different spec compared to the Army. So they might have a good number ready to go.

inch
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by inch »

Wonder how long and if there be a second batch of tank deliveries and long range missiles ie storm shadow,atacms,and even possibility of fighter aircraft, personally I'd just get on and do it now and really put the pressure on Putin and his generals ,cos I think he full of bluff and in reality he more likely to get removed,even if another idiot takes his place they also going to do squat shit with a fully backed modern NATO equipped Ukraine

Phil Sayers
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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inch wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 16:25 even possibility of fighter aircraft
That will be the big debate at the next Ramstein conference and there are growing signs it will be seriously considered.

The Dutch Foreign Secretary has stated they are open to providing F-16s if that is what Kyiv requests (and the US agrees):

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/d ... to-ukraine

A Ukrainian AF spokesperson has claimed that their pilots have already visited the US to discuss training requirements:



The Daily Mirror had to delete a story that we were imminently planning to send our Apaches that are not being upgraded (circa 16 I believe) to Apache Guardians because the MOD curtly and without elaboration stated the report wasn't accurate. However, that could simply have been a denial of the imminent part rather than claiming there was no truth to it being considered.

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Tempest414
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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I don't think Apache's should go but the US have a load of AH-1W's sitting about that would do a great job

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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A-10's.... Some of them in Ukraine would really scare the shite out of the Russians :lol:

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Tempest414
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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40 or so AH-1W super cobra's mixed in with the new armourer would make a difference

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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by Zeno »

Russia still has a formidable air defence and the "Warthog" may not present any challenges as such

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f ... to-ukraine

They refuse to provide the Leclerc Tanks - but talk of "Rafales?" .. not sure i follow the logic - but Rafales would be welcome if true but F16s feel a better option to me - loads of them around.

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Agreed that F-16s would make the most sense given that their age means there is not much the Russians could learn from wreckage or from a traitor in the Ukrainian AF (a concern I would have with regards Rafales or Typhoons). Also, as you say a huge number of different variants are in service with a great many different weapons integrated.

After F-16s the next thing I would consider is talking to the Swedes and Czechs about older model Gripens. For some reason the Russians do not seem to have gone hard after Ukraine's airbases but that could change if Western aviation starts to arrive. The potential ability to e.g use a taxiway as a runway could be pretty useful in that scenario. Not that many weapons integrated but it does include SDBs.
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Phil Sayers wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 13:53 Agreed that F-16s would make the most sense given that their age means there is not much the Russians could learn from wreckage or from a traitor in the Ukrainian AF (a concern I would have with regards Rafales or Typhoons). Also, as you say a huge number of different variants are in service with a great many different weapons integrated.

After F-16s the next thing I would consider is talking to the Swedes and Czechs about older model Gripens. For some reason the Russians do not seem to have gone hard after Ukraine's airbases but that could change if Western aviation starts to arrive. The potential ability to e.g use a taxiway as a runway could be pretty useful in that scenario. Not that many weapons integrated but it does include SDBs.
Absolutely, equipped with AMRAAM ( Ukraine already given these) and AIM 9M, the Gripen would take an extremely heavy toll of the Russian AF.

It has numerous advantages over the F16, a really tough extremely reliable aircraft, designed to be worked on by mainly Conscript ground crews and excellent short/ damaged airfield capability.

It's got a capable avionics suite, extremely low visual and head on radar signature.

Simply put, Ivan wouldn't see it coming and it would be capable of running rings around the Russians.
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inch
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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At what point do we think UK will donate export storm shadow ( 155 mile ) missiles or do we not think UK will donate? I think as time goes on and IF it starts to look dodgy for Ukraine under relentless russian pressure ,the west will shit themselves a bit and I think at that point storm shadow, ATACMS ,F16 will all be sent ,but to be honest if that might even be a possibility I think they should be sending Ukrainians now for training on these systems as a back up , because if they do get these , the shit is hitting the fan and no time for months and months of training at that point ,the old adage prier preparation prevents piss poor performance might apply here

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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by Zeno »

Russia is likely to be able commence further attacks with another large freshly trained conscripts ready for deployment estimates are in the low hundreds of thousands ,it might be debatable of Russia has the logistics in place for this ,but certainly if Ukraine had the means of long range fire it would make a difference , N.A.T.O should aim to provide Ukraine with the means to severely damage the Russian military in Ukraine so it will not present a threat elsewhere

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