The war in Ukraine

Discuss current, historical or potential future conflicts around the world.
Jdam
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by Jdam »

More rough seas :think:

I wonder how many missile they have fired at Russian warships.

Timmymagic
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by Timmymagic »

Timmymagic wrote: 04 May 2022, 21:29
Lord Jim wrote: 01 May 2022, 05:41 So does anyone know if this "Ground Launched" Brimstone will have a man in the loop capability or if it still has the "Swarm Attack" mode the original Brimstone was first designed with?
No datalink so its essentially single mode Brimstone. MMW only, no SAL either.

Wouldn't be shocked if the ones supplied were some of the remaining RAF original Brimstone order adapted for the role which were single mode only.
Brimstone has arrived...and its being fired at ground targets...

As expected its Brimstone 1...old stock which means likely MMW only as the earlier Dual Mode Brimstone conversions were used up in Libya and Afghanistan.

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MammaLiTurchi
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by MammaLiTurchi »

Lord Jim wrote: 04 May 2022, 05:40 And don't forget you have to defend yourself against the other guy trying to do the same to you. UAS like the TB-2 are going to be selling like hot cakes for the next decade or so.
TB-2 is the first of its kind, in terms of doctrine and philosophy. Unlike US, 1990s Turkey did not have endless resources and availability to high-tech systems, also was under constant weapons embargo due to Western powers being uncomfortable with Turkish action against PKK and Kurdish seperatists.

This led Turkey to seek an indigenous solution, which had to be built with minimal technological complexity, high availability and low-cost. Also proposed solution had to be effective against hardly detectable guerilla activity, together with being expendable in case of being hit (by foreign supplied MANPADS)

So, these criteria were being studied on field by Bayraktar brothers since 1990s, which yields TB-1 (Taktik Blok 1, Tactical Block 1) drone as a result. Bayraktar brothers (one of which is now son-in-law of our precious dictator Erdogan) were developing this low cost drone side by side with soldiers on active duty, usually under constant threat close to borderlands.

TB1 was a great jump for Turkish military, but was not enough. Turkish military desperately needed more effective systems, like Predators. But constantly refused by US. Early 2000s were the years in which two important drone types were being developed, TB2 and TAI ANKA.

Anka was a direct alternative to Predator. But this meant that Anka was to be expensive and not as much expendable as TB2. TB2, on the other hand, was a result of direct and unique experience, many of which is obtained with actual combat situations.

TB2 is being used since 2014, and its effectiveness were seen by Turkish military in fight against PKK. Later, Syrian battleground saw action by TB2s. After that, TB2s were used as a tool by Turkish goverment to project power in Libya, Ethiopia and Azerbaijan.

Ukrainian officials, who directly visit and saw how TB2s are operating, decided to buy these simple, yet very effective machines prior to Russian aggression. TB2 itself is not a sole game changer, nor a wunderwaffe, but is cheap and effective. Basically AK47 of unmanned aircrafts.

Turkish drone fleet has nearly 200 TB2s, together with more sophisticated Anka, Anka-2 and Akıncı drones. But only TB2 can give the best expendability coupled with tactical advantage.
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sunstersun
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by sunstersun »

The TB-2 is the AK-47, but I would like to see it perform against a country that has a competent AA net. :lol:

SW1
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by SW1 »

sunstersun wrote: 06 May 2022, 17:48 The TB-2 is the AK-47, but I would like to see it perform against a country that has a competent AA net. :lol:
Thought Russia with its invincible s300/400 that nothing could get past was the tier 1 threat only the super pricey, highest of tech could deal with? Which other enemy’s left?

We were told systems like tb2 wouldn’t work, then when it did, it was they won’t work in a real war, then when they did it was they won’t work against a peer enemy and now that they have we’re onto the next excuse...
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by Enigmatically »

S300/s400 is too expensive to use against TB2. Something like Martlet would be a better defence
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sunstersun
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by sunstersun »

SW1 wrote: 06 May 2022, 18:02
sunstersun wrote: 06 May 2022, 17:48 The TB-2 is the AK-47, but I would like to see it perform against a country that has a competent AA net. :lol:
Thought Russia with its invincible s300/400 that nothing could get past was the tier 1 threat only the super pricey, highest of tech could deal with? Which other enemy’s left?

We were told systems like tb2 wouldn’t work, then when it did, it was they won’t work in a real war, then when they did it was they won’t work against a peer enemy and now that they have we’re onto the next excuse...
It's mostly a joke about Russia being incompetent. The S300 and S400 are mostly for ballistic missiles and aircraft. I'm not surprised they aren't good against drones. The real sad Russian AA performance is the Tor and Pantsir.

I'm not underestimating the tb2, the USA wouldn't have anything better than lobbying up 200 Patriot missiles.

wargame_insomniac
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Enigmatically wrote: 06 May 2022, 18:27 S300/s400 is too expensive to use against TB2. Something like Martlet would be a better defence
I think the Saudis could give some real life confirmation on that, with their efforts to deal with drone attacks from Houthi rebels and trying to use the most cost effective solution to do so.

MammaLiTurchi
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by MammaLiTurchi »

sunstersun wrote: 06 May 2022, 19:11
SW1 wrote: 06 May 2022, 18:02
sunstersun wrote: 06 May 2022, 17:48 The TB-2 is the AK-47, but I would like to see it perform against a country that has a competent AA net. :lol:
Thought Russia with its invincible s300/400 that nothing could get past was the tier 1 threat only the super pricey, highest of tech could deal with? Which other enemy’s left?

We were told systems like tb2 wouldn’t work, then when it did, it was they won’t work in a real war, then when they did it was they won’t work against a peer enemy and now that they have we’re onto the next excuse...
It's mostly a joke about Russia being incompetent. The S300 and S400 are mostly for ballistic missiles and aircraft. I'm not surprised they aren't good against drones. The real sad Russian AA performance is the Tor and Pantsir.

I'm not underestimating the tb2, the USA wouldn't have anything better than lobbying up 200 Patriot missiles.
TB2 was never built for war against a proper military, but instead built to be a cheap, capable, medium altitude long endurance, recce and (partially) strike drone. So even Turkish military had their reserves regarding usage of such drones against organized state actors.

The turnaround point was, I guess, the realization of the fact that Cold War era Soviet radars filter out slow moving composite-dense structures like TB2 as simply "clutter" so that TB2s could indeed be used against old militaries like Armenia, Syria or Libya. Early hits of TB2s on Pantsirs or Tors in Libya or Azerbaijan are simply because enemy AA systems were not the best choice for modern drone threats.

A TB2 costs as much as a PAC3 missile, but anything with less cost can do the job.

I watched a radar simulation video in which they analyzed TB2 detection and hit probabilities based on open source info. It showed most of the recent NATO sensors and systems could in fact find and destroy TB2s but Russian systems performed exceptionally poor.
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leonard
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by leonard »

We can now sea that the Gepard is been served and ready for the journey to the Ukraine

leonard
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by leonard »

Incredible footage of the bombardment of Snake Island by two Ukrainian Air Force Su-27 Flanker

MammaLiTurchi
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by MammaLiTurchi »

leonard wrote: 07 May 2022, 21:09 Incredible footage of the bombardment of Snake Island by two Ukrainian Air Force Su-27 Flanker
Very good move for a country which has "no airbases left" and "all of its aircraft been destroyed".

MammaLiTurchi
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by MammaLiTurchi »



Remarkable, TB2 hits Russian Mi-8 upon troop disembark.

Probably this is the first real combat air-to-air score of a UAV in history(?). I guess so.

Lord Jim
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by Lord Jim »

I remember footage of a Helicopter caught hovering being taken out by a 1000lb LGB in Iraq.

SW1
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war- ... k-12608204

In the beginning, a 40-mile column of Russian armoured vehicles had been bearing down on Kyiv, amid warnings the capital could imminently fall.

But the column appeared to stall for days and then dispersed as it came under insurgent-style attacks.

Ukrainian defenders said remote-controlled mines were used to target a number of the vehicles.

At the same time, small groups of fighters, some using quad bikes, night vision goggles, drones and sniper rifles, would venture up to Russian positions, strike them and then speed away, according to a commander with knowledge of the missions.

"You should not imagine we are like guys from the movie Mad Max but yes we used quad bikes… because they are very mobile," said Lieutenant Colonel Yaroslav Honchar.

"You can move close to some positions and quickly go back."

A target for the assaults was Russia's logistic and supply lines such as food and fuel stores. Without access to vital supplies, even the mightiest army will fail.

It was set up after Russia's first invasion of Ukraine in 2014 and uses the technical skills of civilians with a background in areas like engineering and IT to bolster Ukraine's defences by developing clever drone and surveillance technology that is used by troops.

Aerorozvidka is an example of how civilian volunteers play a vital role in Ukraine's war effort alongside professional, full-time military personnel.

Drones fitted with cameras and armed with explosives have been an important weapon to counter Russia's superior firepower.

Cheap and easy to build, they are taking out far more complex and costly weapons systems like tanks and radars.

"If Russian troops had been able to enter Gorenka, it would mean a 90% chance that nothing would stop them from making it to Kyiv," he said.

"It meant Gorenka could not be surrendered under any circumstances. Here people stood entrenched until the end. They understood that Kyiv was behind them and there was nowhere to retreat to."

Ukrainian forces again destroyed river crossings, before aiming fire on Russian positions.

The commander said that his troops had British and other Western weapons, including anti-tank missiles, which proved vital.

"It would have been several times harder" to repel Russian forces without them, he said.
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SKB
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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(The Sun) 9th May 2022
Protesters in Poland drenched the country’s Russian ambassador in red paint on Monday as he attended a ceremony marking the 77th anniversary of the end of the Second World War.

Ambassador Sergey Andreev was attending a wreath-laying ceremony at a Warsaw cemetery where he and staff were surrounded by demonstrators chanting "fascists", "killers", "shame" and “fuck Putin”.

Many protesters carried Ukrainian flags while some waved the white-red-white flag that has come to symbolise the Belarusian opposition movement.

The war in Ukraine has cast a shadow over this year's Victory Day, when Russians honour the 27 million Soviet citizens who lost their lives in World War Two. Poland, a strong supporter of Ukraine, opposed any large-scale commemoration taking place.

Before leaving, Ambassador Andreev told cameras he was proud of his country and his president.

Ambassador Sergey Andreyev told reporters he and his team were not seriously hurt in the incident, TASS news agency reported.

sunstersun
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/05/mid ... hypocrisy/
Amid Western outrage at Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine, Middle Eastern views of the conflict are colored by attitudes toward the West itself. Arab narratives are typically ambivalent in their presentation of Western reactions. They include accusations of American hypocrisy and double standards.

Political cartoons offer unique insights into these perceptions. They also help show how the Middle East perceives itself within the broader great-power competition between the United States, Russia, and China.

Since the war in Ukraine began, Arab-language cartoons have offered divergent viewpoints on Russia’s actions. These range from neutral calls for negotiations to open condemnations of Russian atrocities – and of Arabs willing to praise a dictator such as Putin. Emirati newspaper al-Ittihad is illustrative of the first view. Its featured cartoons lack any attribution of victimhood or guilt. On the other hand, cartoonists such as Emad Hajjaj – regularly featured in the UK-based New Arab – openly condemn the Bucha massacre.

Hypocrisy Is the Theme

leonard
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by leonard »

Truly unbelievable !!! In the precipitous of the retreat some Russian soldier left behind his most valuable new possession again unbelievable!!!!!

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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by Scimitar54 »

Somehow, I just knew that it had to be an Indes*it ! :mrgreen:

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by bobp »

Good video from the BBC reinforces our need for long range fire artillery and good air defences against drones.
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by SW1 »

bobp wrote: 12 May 2022, 12:48 Good video from the BBC reinforces our need for long range fire artillery and good air defences against drones.
And investment in drones. The concept of the strike brigade the army started down perhaps more relevant that where it has ended up now for its high end capability.

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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by SW1 »

Apparently brimstone ground launcher in Ukraine


Timmymagic
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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by Timmymagic »

SW1 wrote: 12 May 2022, 16:55 Apparently brimstone ground launcher in Ukraine
Bet its the aircraft triple rack mounted on the frame under all that...

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Re: The war in Ukraine

Post by bobp »

This looks like a training exercise. Interested to know if these missiles are aimed at single or multiple targets.

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