Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

[Repulse]

Shows the complete farce of using the RFA for critical tasks.

https://x.com/navylookout/status/170417 ... AEmCklKdgA

Are we approaching the point where the RFA just isn’t viable anymore?

Probably - if they stuck to logistics there’s a chance, but can’t see it working with its current commitment’s

[Poiuytrewq]

Probably - if they stuck to logistics there’s a chance, but can’t see it working with its current commitment’s

The headcount is so low now would it’s hardly worth the hassle.

Perhaps the possibility of a RN support fleet should be explored. Strikes and an inability to maintain the headcount cannot be allowed to endanger national security.

[new guy]

Shows the complete farce of using the RFA for critical tasks.

https://x.com/navylookout/status/170417 ... AEmCklKdgA

Are we approaching the point where the RFA just isn’t viable anymore?

I mean if private sector pay rises above the public sector pay too much, why be in the even lower paying RFA?

[donald_of_tokyo]

Shows the complete farce of using the RFA for critical tasks.

https://x.com/navylookout/status/170417 ... AEmCklKdgA

Are we approaching the point where the RFA just isn’t viable anymore?

Probably - if they stuck to logistics there’s a chance, but can’t see it working with its current commitment’s

It is simple. Thanks that RFA member is more directly connected to merchant shipping word, it just clarified that the payment is too low. Just it.

The same will happen to RN. Just taking some time because of hiring system difference.

As I myself said in the past, manning a few RFA vessels with RN will be a good stop gap, but it will not solve the lack of man power, as RN itself is suffering man power crisis.

T32? Throw it away. Many MHC LSV? Impossible.

Increase the pay. If not, even the current “gapped” escort fleet will become difficult to mann, and the 3rd FSS will be sold immediately, or canceled.

[shark bait]

Perhaps the possibility of a RN support fleet should be explored.

Good idea! Maybe call it the Royal Auxiliary Fleet?

[Poiuytrewq]

Perhaps the possibility of a RN support fleet should be explored.

Good idea! Maybe call it the Royal Auxiliary Fleet?

It matters not what it is called. It just needs to work.

It’s time to fix it or change it.

RN must be decisive now or the RFA is going to derail what should be a massive UK success story over the next decade.

[shark bait]

The RFA is not going to derail the Navy.

The Navy is also suffering the very same shortages, meaning dissolving the RFA, and narrowing the talent pool is only going to exacerbate the problem.

[Poiuytrewq]

As I myself said in the past, manning a few RFA vessels with RN will be a good stop gap, but it will not solve the lack of man power, as RN itself is suffering man power crisis.

T32? Throw it away. Many MHC LSV? Impossible.

Increase the pay. If not, even the current “gapped” escort fleet will become difficult to mann, and the 3rd FSS will be sold immediately, or canceled.

Completely agree. It’s currently totally unsustainable without complete reform.

The Waves should be providing valuable capability EoS. Great ships.

Asking the RFA to do even more is going to be disastrous.

The size of the fleet cannot be dictated by RFA recruitment. If it can’t be fixed it will have to be amalgamated into RN.

Time for decisive action now.

[donald_of_tokyo]

As I myself said in the past, manning a few RFA vessels with RN will be a good stop gap, but it will not solve the lack of man power, as RN itself is suffering man power crisis.

T32? Throw it away. Many MHC LSV? Impossible.

Increase the pay. If not, even the current “gapped” escort fleet will become difficult to mann, and the 3rd FSS will be sold immediately, or canceled.

Completely agree. It’s currently totally unsustainable without complete reform.

The Waves should be providing valuable capability EoS. Great ships.

Asking the RFA to do even more is going to be disastrous.

The size of the fleet cannot be dictated by RFA recruitment. If it can’t be fixed it will have to be amalgamated into RN.

Time for decisive action now.

My point was, to rise the payment of BOTH RN and RFA. Having two organization is not a big problem for me.

Unifying them is also not a big problem for me. But, unifying them without pay-rise will not solve the problem. Keeping the two organization but rising the payment will solve the problem. So, unification is unrelated. Payment is the key.

[Poiuytrewq]

My point was, to rise the payment of BOTH RN and RFA. Having two organization is not a big problem for me.

Unifying them is also not a big problem for me. But, unifying them without pay-rise will not solve the problem. Keeping the two organization but rising the payment will solve the problem. So, unification is unrelated. Payment is the key.

Fair points but as RN rely more and more on the RFA for crucial capabilities the threat of strikes is potentially unsustainable.

Given how small the RFA actually now is what are the advantages? Would it actually save money to streamline into one organisation?

[Repulse]

Shows the complete farce of using the RFA for critical tasks.

https://x.com/navylookout/status/170417 ... AEmCklKdgA

Are we approaching the point where the RFA just isn’t viable anymore?

Probably - if they stuck to logistics there’s a chance, but can’t see it working with its current commitment’s

It is simple. Thanks that RFA member is more directly connected to merchant shipping word, it just clarified that the payment is too low. Just it.

The same will happen to RN. Just taking some time because of hiring system difference.

As I myself said in the past, manning a few RFA vessels with RN will be a good stop gap, but it will not solve the lack of man power, as RN itself is suffering man power crisis.

T32? Throw it away. Many MHC LSV? Impossible.

Increase the pay. If not, even the current “gapped” escort fleet will become difficult to mann, and the 3rd FSS will be sold immediately, or canceled.

Pay is definitely a factor and I agree money will need to be found (cuts elsewhere) to do this. However, it’s not all about money, it’s as much to do about career growth and retention (difficult in a small organisation), and dependency for key capabilities such as MCM on the shoulders on an overstretched organisation that can strike.

[Jackstar]

[donald_of_tokyo]

Interesting photo. Virtually, the same size. Makes me feel why not get the same/syster hull, for commonality?

[new guy]

Interesting photo. Virtually, the same size. Makes me feel why not get the same/syster hull, for commonality?

Because bought off open market that's why.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Interesting photo. Virtually, the same size. Makes me feel why not get the same/syster hull, for commonality?

Because bought off open market that's why.

I know. But, it is also "commonality" was not required. If required, MOD should have been finding vessels that meet the requirement.

Anyway, not sure how their operation/maintenance cost will continue to be.

[new guy]

Interesting photo. Virtually, the same size. Makes me feel why not get the same/syster hull, for commonality?

Because bought off open market that's why.

I know. But, it is also "commonality" was not required. If required, MOD should have been finding vessels that meet the requirement.

Anyway, not sure how their operation/maintenance cost will continue to be.

If required, then it would just be easier to buy new from a foreign yard or make our own class.

[Poiuytrewq]

I know. But, it is also "commonality" was not required. If required, MOD should have been finding vessels that meet the requirement.

Commonality is great but sometimes it’s another word for bespoke.

Bespoke is another word for very expensive and not readily available.

When operating commercial vessels the commonality is automatically included.

[wargame_insomniac]

Both ships were designed and built by Vard, just different designs used for different purposes.

[Dahedd]

Interesting photo. Virtually, the same size. Makes me feel why not get the same/syster hull, for commonality?

Slightly different roles though, Stirling Castle is for trials as a mine warfare drone mothership as opposed to Proteus being for sea bed cable protection.

Proteus sister ship is on sale just now. Portsmouth news has a story about the ship today stating another ship will be built/purchased soon. Surely a no brainer to pick up the sister ship?

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defen ... ty-4346944

[shark bait]

The sister ship is Topaz Tiamat. How do you know it's for sale?

[Dahedd]

Positive it was mentioned back when Proteus was first purchased. Maybe she's gone now.


I'll edit that.....going back through this thread I came across a post by you saying they should buy the sister ship. I obviously got my wires crossed.

[Ianmb17]

May be available back end of next year unless contract extension

Has proteus also had this retro fitted 1300 kW SeaQ Energy Storage System

https://www.4coffshore.com/news/boskali ... 20619.html

[wargame_insomniac]

May be available back end of next year unless contract extension

Has proteus also had this retro fitted 1300 kW SeaQ Energy Storage System

https://www.4coffshore.com/news/boskali ... 20619.html

That to me is a sensible plan.

In the long term it would be better for UK shipbuilding if we could build any MROSS in UK, but H&W Belfast will be busy with the 3*FSS, and I am not sure what capacity CL would have. So I do think in the short term it is more practical for us to buy second hand the 2nd MROSS.

The end of next year will give a few months of (hopefully soon) RFA Proteus working under full operating conditions, seeing exactly what can do in parctice, and if there end up being any potential issues / problems for the exact work that need MROSS to fulfill.

I hope there won't be any issues or problems with the design following practical operations because on paper the design should be perfect for the role intended. But it is better to be sure from practical experience.

If so (assuming all goes well with Proteus) then I hope UK seriously considers buying Topaz Tiamat, as it will make two sense to have two near identical ships working together rather than start having a mismatch of various designs for the MROSS role.

[SKB]

(Portsmouth Proud/Navy Lookout) 4th October 2023

The offshore support vessel, MV Topaz Tangaroa was purchased by the Ministry of Defence in 2022 for conversion to a Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance (MROS) ship. Her primary role will be to protect underwater infrastructure. She will be formally re-named RFA Proteus and enter Royal Feet Auxiliary Service at a ceremony in London next week.

[Poiuytrewq]

Another amazingly detailed overview.

https://www.navylookout.com/a-guide-to- ... re-vessel/