Looking at the BAE offering I don’t think this can now be completely discounted.
It’s true that Damen have not actually built a Crossover yet but then BAE haven’t actually built an Adapted Strike Frigate either!
Looking at the BAE offering I don’t think this can now be completely discounted.
A fighting chance for BAE?
Invest some of the money saved to construct a suitable dry dock on the south coast.
To be fair docks 2 and 3 are big enough to build ships 220 x 40 meter as proven by the picture of the 210 x 36 meter HMS Illustrious docked next a QE class in dock 1
So we’re not actually saving any money then….Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022, 11:17Invest some of the money saved to construct a suitable dry dock on the south coast.
Why?SW1 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022, 11:27So we’re not actually saving any money then….Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022, 11:17Invest some of the money saved to construct a suitable dry dock on the south coast.
Wouldn't it be better to put the QECs in dock 2 or 3 as you will need the Goliath crane which is over Dock 1 to build the FSS. Oh but isn't dock 3 at least being used for decommissioning and chopping up one f the old SSNs.Tempest414 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022, 11:22To be fair docks 2 and 3 are big enough to build ships 220 x 40 meter as proven by the picture of the 210 x 36 meter HMS Illustrious docked next a QE class in dock 1
Docks 2 & 3 are quite a bit shorter than dock 1, a QEC carrier wouldn't fit.tomuk wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022, 17:15Wouldn't it be better to put the QECs in dock 2 or 3 as you will need the Goliath crane which is over Dock 1 to build the FSS. Oh but isn't dock 3 at least being used for decommissioning and chopping up one f the old SSNs.Tempest414 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022, 11:22To be fair docks 2 and 3 are big enough to build ships 220 x 40 meter as proven by the picture of the 210 x 36 meter HMS Illustrious docked next a QE class in dock 1
Better have the Goliath crane moved then.Bongodog wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022, 17:52Docks 2 & 3 are quite a bit shorter than dock 1, a QEC carrier wouldn't fit.tomuk wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022, 17:15Wouldn't it be better to put the QECs in dock 2 or 3 as you will need the Goliath crane which is over Dock 1 to build the FSS. Oh but isn't dock 3 at least being used for decommissioning and chopping up one f the old SSNs.Tempest414 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022, 11:22To be fair docks 2 and 3 are big enough to build ships 220 x 40 meter as proven by the picture of the 210 x 36 meter HMS Illustrious docked next a QE class in dock 1
What is to stop BAE raising their prices once they have pushed Babcock out of escort building market?Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022, 10:23A fighting chance for BAE?
Could BAE actually see the T32 as a way of pushing Babcock out of UK escort building altogether?
If BAE won the T32 contract and consolidated all escort building at Govan and Scotstoun there would be substantive economies of scale. Would it amount to savings of 15% to 20% per hull? Seems fanciful but 10% to 12% may be possible.
For the remaining five T26 and proposed five T32 that could amount to a saving of around £600m to £700m or the equivalent of 1.5 or 2 T32 hulls. A great place for the Treasury to find a cut without actually cutting anything. A true efficiency saving.
Babcock would then have to concentrate on MROSS, FSS and MRSS plus the Wave and Point replacements. The infrastructure at Rosyth would have to expand further to accommodate such a large order book but again the economies of scale could be huge. Other UK yards could bid for blocks but Rosyth would become the UK’s mega-yard.
It could be win-win for everyone (apart from Navantia).
In that I would agree. But that is NOT what you said previously.
Design is the easy bit, productionising the design and manufacturing the hard bit. If you don’t consider that the later in the former from the beginning you end up building expensive individual prototypes.
BMT is the UK design house it is the old Naval architects department privatised in a slightly odd way so it can remain independent. The traditional model in the UK was the Naval architects would come up with the concept high level design and than a lead yard would do the detail\build design. That lead yard would then build at least some of the ships with other yards following their detailed design. The T23 being the last to be built like this between the RN, Yarrows and Swan Hunter.Tempest414 wrote: ↑30 Oct 2022, 08:18 In my fantasy world I would invest in BMT to make it the UK design house and then have BAE and Babcocks contest for the build contract
Is this not more Political Discussions rather than Type 32 News?SD67 wrote: ↑08 Nov 2022, 18:48 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... p-defence/
He’s staying, the big wigs have told him to suck it up
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Or the more likely out come IMO HMG just see escort numbers stay the same or shrink and blame everything on the economic position even through they find money for everything else including climate reputations.Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑29 Nov 2022, 16:27 IMO the likelihood of the T32 programme being scrapped just went through the roof.
A mix of additional T26 and T31 looks like the most sensible way to proceed if HMG are really serious about growing escort numbers.